Basic Equality for Women--Denied

I'll pick one.

And what is your proof that 'most" of these BABIES are aborted because of medical problems? More propaganda!

An ethical doctor would not do a late abortion -- what you're describing -- without good medical reason. That's not propaganda. Are you listening to propaganda that misrepresents the reasons for late abortions?

If you want to be sure I reply to the question you most want answered, please clearly lable or only ask one question.

You are ok with abortion as a choice that only the woman and her doctor make right? So what is the problem other than people here are not saying they believe it is a human life? Some people do not think a fetus is a human until it is born. Everyone has a right to his or her own beliefs.

I personally beleive it is a human being at contraception because I have studied animal husbandry and plant reproduction in fact was fascinated by the whole process  Is it that you want everyone here to admit something they may not beleive? 

I have a question for you. Why is it that the religious right and other anti-choice organizations  are not outside the pentagon day and night harassing the the soldiers,the military,the bomb makers,the gun manufacturers of military weapons. They are killing LIVING BREATHING Humans and that pisses me off! My tax dollars are paying for three wars I do not want to pay for. People-Men, Women and children including unborn children are losing their lives and for what? The US is not going to be any safer. It is bogus! They just love killing and maiming for the almighty dollar and the oil!!. Tell them to stop- instead of harrassing women.

This just proves the point that the republicans want women to be cattle or property to men. heck we practically still are now. i personally find it barbaric to be nothing but a baby machine with no other value and that is exactly what they are doing! Open your eyes and ears and do some research you will find the truth. they could care less about fetuses or women!

~ Bullshit! I grew up with southern baptist preachers, all but one was a pervert, their favorite age for girls to be was twelve and thirteen. And christians capitalize off of child rape by way of forcing pregnant raped little girls to breed to satisfy their pregnancy and birth fetishes. ~

Thank you Julie - It is about class warfare!

... and this is getting far from the point of the article above, with is about "Basic Equality for Women", which is about (to me) class warfare, and I would say all these attacks on women's equity is being a substitute for being a war on poor people in general (both men and women). It's just easier to attack poor men through poor women.

"not intended to be a factual statement"  - like 98% of Planned Parenthoods abortion business.  Mua ha ha ha. 

I do realize that yes. But my stand still holds. Babies should be protected.

But not their mothers, apparently.

If we put aside all of the anger from both sides and the propaganda that I am sure exists on both sides and all the "reasons" why abortion should be justified then you are left with one thing...a baby that was robbed of it's life.

Sorry, but the "baby" (fetus, actually) is not entitled to life support from a woman without her consent. If you want to talk about who's being robbed, it's the woman with an unwanted pregnancy who is denied the opportunity to terminate it.

It makes me very sad to know that. When I see babies laughing and playing with their feet and learning to crawl and my own little grandson and grandaughter kissing me on the cheek before they were even a year old I can't help but also think of the many that will die that day that will never know love or laughter.

Oh, now I understand! You had a great pregnancy, and you can't possibly imagine why someone would not want to carry a pregnancy to term. So you're "pro-life" only because you're ignorant of why women would ever want to choose abortion.

My stand on abortion doesn't come from my hatred of women or what they do with thier bodies. It comes from a genuine sympathy for the babies that are dismembred.

Also ignorant of how (and when) the majority of abortions are performed. (Hint: It doesn't involve anything that can be described as "dismemberment.")

I know you guys are probably getting tired of hearing me say that but if you will go to the link I posted you will hear the abortionists themselves admit everything I have said.

Would those be the ones who still support a woman's right to an abortion despite their own personal views on the subject, or the ones who changed sides for the same reasons?

You can't be doing yourselves any favors by pretending as if it isn't a baby or pretending as if your body is more important than that little ones chance to live.

I'm sure that the women whose health and lives were saved by abortion would disagree.

I can't understand how we as a nation have gotten to the point where mothers will stand in line to kill their children and lash out at those who say, "don't kill it, it's a baby".

Wait a second, what nation are you in? Here in the U.S., infanticide is a very rare occurrence.

Again,not trying to be melodramatic, I really don't understand how that happened and how we go tto the point that we are so cold hearted and dead inside to think that it is ok.

You mean, deny women control over their own bodies? I think it has a lot to do with endemic sexism and misogyny in our culture. Feminism is working on this, but the necessary changes won't happen overnight.

 I really don't understand how that happened and how we go tto the point that we are so cold hearted and dead inside to think that it is ok.

Ever since pregnant females realized that they could terminate a pregnancy, they've been doing so. The first record we have of abortion was in 1550 BC. With that much history, we didn't suddenly think it was ok, or become "cold hearted" or "dead inside." Furthermore, 1/3 of American women have had an abortion by the time they're 45. I don't think 1/3 of women are "cold hearted" or "dead inside." I also don't think they're stupid and didn't know what happens when a pregnancy is terminated.

I think it's pretty cold hearted to look at a pregnant woman or girl who wants to terminate a pregnancy and say, "I know better than you do." Because we don't. She knows her life and her health better than we do. She has the right to make those choices. Considering that pregnancy is a grueling process with significant health risks, demanding that she undergo it simply because she happened to be born female and had sex is, at the very least, demeaning. There are NO other modern circumstances in which either society or the government would force someone to endure nine months of bodily donation resulting in drastic physical changes, discomfort, pain, and potentially life threatening conditions followed by pushing a seven pound object out of a bodily orifice, just because someone else benefits from it. If something like that was going on, people would be outraged, and heads would roll.

Childbirth is described as the single most painful experience a person can experience. If you get a wanted baby out of it, it's worth it. If you're forced or coerced to go through that process and that pain, it would be torture, as would the preceeding nine months. That's where illegal and unsafe abortion flourishes. In desperation. You say that you feel for the women and girls who face unwanted pregnancy, but I'm not sure if you're grasping the reality of what you want to force them to do.

Women and girls have been terminating unwanted and unteneble pregnancies for ages. Burning people at the stake didn't stop it. Excommunicating people doesn't stop it. Making it illegal doesn't stop it. Stigmatizing it doesn't stop it. We have two choices: either abortion is legal, accessible, and safe, or it is illegal/inaccessble, and unsafe.

No one here is "pro-abortion." We're pro-choice, or pro-abortion rights, or pro-reproductive justice, or a number of other labels that accurately portray our viewpoint. If you're here to actually have a meaningful debate, stop using language clearly intended to degrade or insult us.

Actually, deanna, I work in an abortion clinic so I know fairly well just what crisis pregnancy centers say precisely because I have to spend a lot of time disseminating that information so patients can make an informed decision.  Not to mention I've been given many of the pamphlets from the CPC that the protestors like to hock to our patients and they include some of the most ludicrous information ever.  Even non-medical laypeople can pick up the stench from those heavily worded INACCURATE pamphlets.  Maybe you should consider this - even after receiving the anti-abortion counseling, women still choose abortion.

The difference is that you choose to believe all the anti-abortion nonsense that's been presented to you (and you sincerely believe it) because it makes it easier to demonize abortion if there's something dangerous about it - which there absolutely isn't.  It is one of THE safest out-patient procedures - that's not up for debate.  The abortion itself does not cause problems - not obeying after-care instructions DOES... just like if you got your tooth pulled and then continued to stick your dirty finger in the socket - it would probably become irritated and possibly infected.  If you disagree with abortion then FINE - but don't you dare try to dispute the medical FACT - it is not a matter of opinion - and present it to people as a scare tactic which you know very well is exactly what you are doing.

I know exactly what I am advocating for - why do you insist on treating other adults as if they are mentally deficient or incapable of forming thoughts on their own?  Is that because only your position is the correct one? That's absolutely insulting and if that's how you talked to the women you "counseled" then you are a horrible person.  

I did look at your website, but it looks like every single other crisis pregnancy website ever.

All of your links to "sources" are right to life committees etc and most of the information is false - like the breast cancer link and ovarian and cervical cancer link.  Bull shite.

I didn't finish looking around because I've seen it before and it's typical of your "pro-life" propaganda, scare-tactics, and fear mongering.  You mask being a control freak and morality crusader as "concern" for women and children. 

Your religious belief (which is exactly that - a personal belief - i repeat, belief) does not give you license to seek or exert control over everyone else's life decisions.

And on the topic of child abuse, I feel that I should mention that abortion history is associated with more frequently maternal slapping, hitting, kicking or biting, beating, and use of physical punishment in general

You forgot to add the "...in a sample of mothers who have either personally mistreated their children or allowed someone else to do so" part.

Since you agree child abuse is bad, then do you not agree that if women who abort have more history of being abusive to their children than women who do not, that we should examine whether or not abortion should be legal as it might lead to women being more abusive to their children than they otherwise would be, perpetuating the cycle of abuse?

Probably not, because the study only found a correlation among mothers who were already abusive, and not a causation among women who choose to abort in general. Perhaps you may want to read it more closely, instead of presuming it says what your buddies at Lifesite think it says.

So as I understand it, your premise is that women have abortions and that CAUSES them to be abusive to their children through some bizarre personality change?  And banning the (legal) abortions would prevent the evil magic involved from causing this mysterious personality change?

Did it ever occur to you that BOTH the abusive behavior and the abortions are caused by a THIRD factor, like poverty?  Like perhaps not wanting to be a mother at all because one is deficient in maternal feelings?  Forcing women who don't want to be mothers to have back alley abortions instead isn't going to cure child abuse.  Except, of course, insofar as it kills a lot of women.  The idea that you can 'save' women from being abusive by forcing them to have children they don't want is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard.  It's practically guaranteed to double, perhaps triple the abuse and neglect cases.  Why do you hate those children so much?  Why do you want to condemn them to miserable lives with mothers full of resentment and abuse?

There's voluminous research showing that rigid, authoritarian fundamentalist religious people are 50% more likely to abuse their children, that such people commit more domestic violence, and that they are more likely to exhibit sexual perversions.  Does that mean it's the religion that mysteriously causes the violence?  Or isn't it a lot more likely that the TYPE OF PERSON who is ALREADY abusive and violent and perverted is more likely to CHOOSE authoritarian fundamentalism?