Birth Control Will Create "Pagan Society Based On Consequence-Free Sex"
by Robin Marty, RH Reality Check
September 7, 2011 - 2:55pm (Print)
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Are you ready to be the "battering ram" of a pagan society? Because this is the best anti-birth control screed I have ever read.
Via NPR, writing on conservative arguments against the Pill:
Others, such as Jeffrey Kuhner, president of the conservative Edmund Burke Institute, say birth control is no less than an affront to God. "In short, liberals want to create a world without God and sexual permissiveness is their battering ram. Promoting widespread contraception is essential to forging a pagan society based on consequence-free sex," he wrote in an opinion piece for the Washington Times.
Am I the only one who thought he was going somewhere else with that battering ram metaphor?
Follow Robin Marty on Twitter, @robinmarty
Hmmm....he may have started a new fad, "The Battering Ram." LOL. Why are conservatives so obsessed with other people's sex lives? Seems like they are jealous of all the sex we liberals are having.
Why do they always have to make up these weird, elaborate, conspiracy-tinted stories about normal, everyday things like birth control? I mean, I've read these crazy "opinion" pieces by anti-choice conservatives so many times that I'm starting to wonder how many of them are seriously delusional and how many of them are just exaggerating for effect.
Also, it makes me giggle to think that my tiny IUD is an AFFRONT TO GOD. Since it's inside of my body, does that also make me as a person a heinous affront to God as well? whoa, who knew!!
Your mistake is in thinking that it's your body. You don't own it--God does. And by vandalising his property through the use of an IUD you are committing an act of aggression against God.
Your mistake is in thinking that it's your body. You don't own it--God does.
The way anti-choicers see it, it's like borrowing your dad's car. You have to be really careful with it, and if you so much as get a scratch on the door, you're in for a whupping. Oh, and if he wants you to grab some milk and a baby or two on the way home, then you have to do it. Otherwise, no more driving privileges for you!
Uh...you cannot be serious, Jayn.
Uh...you cannot be serious, Jayn.
I think it was meant to be sarcasm... not that that's easy to recognize when you have so many troglodytes willing to say stuff like this for real.
Well, Jayn, last time I checked we weren't living in a theocracy, and no deity has appointed you as its spokesperson. So what I choose to do with my body and how many children I choose to bear, if any, is still none of your business. Are we clear on that now?
Okay--seeing now that this was sarcasm so I take it back and apologize. So sorry, Jayn--I plead very frazzled brain so please forgive me.
Well go arrest YOURSELF then, "baby killer", because OUR God/Goddess gave ALL women 450+ ABORTIFACIENT plants like COFFEE, TEA, SOY, GINGER, RED CLOVER, "CONSECRATED" WINE, TOBACCO, JERUSALEM'S QUEEN ANN'S LACE SEEDS, AND BC PILL-INSPIRING YUCCA AND YAM PLANTS so women can avoid grisly childbirth injuries and save unwanted children from being raped by priests! You've given yourself and countless other women a zillion abortions already in your kitchen and office! Now go gather up your "aborted baby" tampons and have Father Pedophile give them last rites and say funeral masses for them!
But, but, but I thought Pagan societies were TOTALLY structured around the fertility cycle and crops and celebrating reproduction. I thought Pagan societies were the ones with the 'temple priestesses' and orgies the PURPOSE of which was to produce pregnancies. No devout self-respecting Pagan is religiously interested in BARREN sex and PREVENTING reproduction.
REAL Pagans are more like the 'baby a year till you die' Quiverfull adherents or the 'celebrating their feminity' advocates dabbling wistfully in their vaginal mucus and thinking about how as Real Women the greatest accomplishment they could ever aspire to is death during childbirth.
These guys aren't just paranoid and delusional, they're outright IGNORANT. Last time they got all lathered up and hysterical like this over something they didn't really understand, they burned women alive. Are they really truly going to let the misogynistic fanatics off the leash again just so the Republicans can get reelected?
I guess if they're willing to create a global depression and starve a billion people to death to prove they're 'real men', there isn't any reason to assume a few thousand women killed here or there annually would be important to them, but it's like they have AMNESIA about just how crappy things were for everybody ELSE when this was tried the last time.
I may have overlooked it, but his various bios indicate him being married for about 15 YEARS but don't mention ANY CHILDREN! I actually crossed paths with him during the Gore v. Bush debacle and he mentioned previously working for ANOTHER CHILDFREE forced birther Catholic -- Pat Buchanan (whom NOBODY challenges for being blissfully childfree!). What is especially worrisome is the Croatian Catholic "refugee" background of his Canadian citizen parents -- if you google "Unholy Trinity" by Mark Aarons and John Loftus, Vatican Nazi ratlines, Vatican Bank Claims and Nazi Catholic Croatian Ustashi leader Ante Pavelich, you'll find a mother lode of "pro-life" WWII GENOCIDE committed by his beloved anti-contraception pope, Paul VI aka Cardinal Montini, who KNOWINGLY FUNDED the slaughter of 1 MILLION Serb Christian Orthodox "heretics" -- including the gutting of pregnant Serbs and their FETUSES! -- "TO FIGHT ABORTION!" HUNDREDS of Croatian priests ran death camps and raped ALREADY BORN children before dismembering them! These priests also ran the ratlines that smuggled 100,000 Nazis to Canada and the U.S.! Kuhner's parents, grandparents and other relatives could be bonafide Nazi genociders. He recently defended Croatian war criminals in the more recent 1990s Balkan conflicts!
It amazes me that liberals never challenge forced birther PRIESTS and GOP playboys on their own childfree lifestyle choices and the Vatican's genocidal Nazi collusion. Paul VI's mother-killing Humana Vitae is completely invalid since Paul should have been hung at Nuremberg!
It also amazes me that forced birthers demand OTHER couples practice their miserable and deadly abstinence-only UNnatural Family Cramming (NFP) scam while they do as they please -- mistresses, closet abortions, multiple annulments, corporate fraud, genocidal invasions, etc.
A PAGAN social structure was based on FERTILITY but that means NOT destroying our production of food and waters by oever populating our lands.
We honor the reproductive pattern of the womans body and altars, mounds, henges from thousands of years are oriented to this unchanging pattern.
PAGANS taught and do teach logical planning of reproduction of humans as well as animals. We honor the fertility of the crops and cattle while maintaining a balance of all and no over production in any area. This is HONORING FERTILITY.
At Festivals and ritual celebrations we have all the sex games anyone could want and camaraderie in common among everyday life but we dont make pregnancies unless planning has shown a new mouth can be fed till the baby reaches age to join in being a productive member of the society and not a drain on resources.
We work WITH NATURE and have not the hubris to think we can overcome HER and make HER our slave. ;)
If you were being sarcastic here you ought ot have paced a disclaimer under it.
I also take offence at this text as those sooo many who know NOTHING of PAGANISM
will take parts and use on other threads where the ignorant can use theses remarks
to bolster the persecution of PAGANS and HEATHENS
this needs your capable editing skills:
I thought Pagan societies were the ones with the 'temple priestesses' and orgies the PURPOSE of which was to produce pregnancies. No devout self-respecting Pagan is religiously interested in BARREN sex and PREVENTING reproduction.
REAL Pagans are more like the 'baby a year till you die' Quiverfull adherents or the 'celebrating their feminity' advocates dabbling wistfully in their vaginal mucus and thinking about how as Real Women the greatest accomplishment they could ever aspire to is death during childbirth.
your kind attention to it is greatly appreciated.
Thanks .
`
This was directed to crowepps B
I did hit reply but is wants to be posted here instead
mmm?
I was being sarcastic, and I should have placed a disclaimer on it.
trying to make this where it oughtta be
crowepps
If you were being sarcastic here you ought ot have paced a disclaimer under it.
I also take offence at this text as those sooo many who know NOTHING of PAGANISM
will take parts and use on other threads where the ignorant can use theses remarks
to bolster the persecution of PAGANS and HEATHENS
this needs your capable editing skills:
I thought Pagan societies were the ones with the 'temple priestesses' and orgies the PURPOSE of which was to produce pregnancies. No devout self-respecting Pagan is religiously interested in BARREN sex and PREVENTING reproduction.
REAL Pagans are more like the 'baby a year till you die' Quiverfull adherents or the 'celebrating their feminity' advocates dabbling wistfully in their vaginal mucus and thinking about how as Real Women the greatest accomplishment they could ever aspire to is death during childbirth.
your kind attention to it is greatly appreciated.
Thanks .
`
Although I usually respect your posts, this one is utterly beyond the pale. Your "real Pagans" do NOT exist. Pagans believe in RESPONSIBLE childbearing and women as PEOPLE, _NOT_ incubators.
An apology is in order.
The "real Pagans", with "temple priestesses" that I was talking about did indeed exist, but were, obviously, way back there thousands of years ago, in the time of Zeus and Hera, Thor and Odin, Corn Kings and the Horned One, feeding infants to Moloch and burning human sacrifices in wicker baskets. Golden Bough pagans. Ancient pagans.
To those people who currently describe themselves as "Pagan", I sincerely apologize for forgetting you and insulting you.
My acquaintances use the term Wiccan and I just plain and simple screwed up by forgetting you.
Thank you for the apology, but there is still disrespect here.
Google Peter Berresford Ellis for a brilliant rebuttal of the obscene idea that Druids practiced human sacrifice. Modern interpretations of the activities of the hierodoules are twisted by being viewed through the lens of Judeo-Christian hatred of anything sexual. Jesus belongs right up there with the "Corn Kings".
Vote me a "troll" again if you like, but my point iis valid.
I agree that Jesus has some simularities to a corn king, although His myth has many distinct differences, first because he has no companion representative of a goddess, second, that he has no relationship to fertility, and is not being sacrificed due to a perceived failure in same, and third, that his teachings were considered important. Corn kings traditionally WERE and FERTILIZED but their 'reign' was mainly physical. In addition, Christ's shedding of blood and suffering are not aimed at replentishing the earth but instead designed to satisfy the need for punishment held by a God angry at His creation for disobedience, which is a huge theological difference.
The Romans documented 'Druids', and their capture of Roman troops, and their attempts and successes in burning them, wicker cages and all. Absolutely agree that propaganda by their Catholic persecutors has little value.
I very rarely vote on posts unless they contain hate speech, which yours did not, and certainly didn't vote on any of yours in this thread. I don't vote posts down because they criticise me, particularly when the criticism is valid.
As to "respect". I agree that you have every right to practice any faith which you wish to practice and to expect everyone to respect your right to do so. Religious freedom demands that we all recognize those reciprocal rights. As we should, for instance, the beliefs of the sincere fundamentalist Christian faithful who appear on these comments threads. Agreeing that the PRACTICES of the people involved are correct and a good idea, of course, is a whole different thing.
Your brief comment may not have been requesting that I ignore the voluminous scholarship that memorializes religious practices by ancient peoples using the same religious name, but I would note that shoving it all out of sight because your religion has progressed and those practices are no longer part of it sounds like intellectual whitewashing, and I think it's unreasonable to expect me or anybody else to do that. Christians have to cope with Lot's incest, and Abraham's willingness to kill his son as a sacrifice, and his sexual abuse of his servant. I'm sure Pagans can cope with the existence of ancient practices even though they may grate on modern sensibilities.
Resurrecting a persecuted and obliterated religion may be a good thing, but pretending its ancient practices were always in line with modern sensibilities is a betrayal of its ancient practitioners. Rites which they felt necessary and proper may seem odd or cruel to us, but since they must have felt they were absolutely vital or they wouldn't have performed them, their sincere belief deserves some respect as well.
I take offense at the remarks in your first two paragraphs. Pagans DID celebrate May Day with fertility rituals to ensure a good crop; however, that doesn't mean they are irresponsible people who have sex solely for the purpose of reproduction.
And your comment "REAL Pagans are more like ' baby a year til you die' " and the rest of the drivel in that paragraph are so disrespectful I won't even attempt to refute it. Aparently, you have no knowledge whatsoever of Paganism. If you did, you would not be making such horrendous remarks. Try looking up what REAL pagans do on www.witchvox.com.
I would like to suggest three things:
1.Learn to distinguish between sarcasm/humor and insult. (Crowepps was making a joke, Mr Kuhner was not)
2. Write Jeffrey Kuhner (jkuhner@edmundburkeinstitute.org) about his "horrendous" remarks and insults directed towards the Pagan community
3. Understand that writing in bold does not incline the reader to accord your post more emphasis or respect or attention. Quite the opposite.
I apologize for offending you with my humor. The following may do it again.
I would note that the Catholics and fundamentlists insist that it's having sex for any purpose OTHER than reproduction that is irresponsible.
I would note that unless present day Pagans have reinstituted temple priestesses, it's pretty clear I wasn't talking about you.
At last a step away from the deceit that Religious Right wingnuts are concerned about the "life" of the fetus. The fanatics are opposed to ALL family planning and this is only a means to their end of imposing their twisted sexual repressionism and misogynism on the rest of us. If Mr. Kuhrer would now admit that his religious charlatanism is merely a device for persecuting "consequence-free sex" and the lives and health of women, he'd be almost truthful!
I really don't understand this these are the same people that will wonder why we are finding more an more babies thrown into the garbage because the mother didn't want the child in the first place and when they find the mother want to throw her in jail for murder.
I wish people would watch the movie: THE OTHERSIDE OF MIDNIGHT and just maybe they would give the right to do what she wants to do.
I'm confused--what does a novel by Sidney Sheldon--a very good novel which was made into a good movie in 1977, have to do with the issue of birth control? Can you enlighten me, Carol?
Kuhner and his Nazi pedophile priest terrorist cult want to impose Nazi punishments (torture, slave labor, forced breeding, medical experiments and executions) on contraception-using couples and abortion patients! The Vatican and its thousands of Nazi-colluding clergy were never punished for supporting Catholic Hitler and genociding a million Serb "heretics". Croatian Nazi apologist Kuhner wants to reinstate his death cult here in America. He needs to be pilloried 24/7 by women, Dems and the media. He musn't get away with his Nazi hate crimes.
I mean, you're not going to deny MEN the opportunity of consequence-free sex by taking those away, are you???
Didn't think so.
I would have thought he would have used the term Atheists. Maybe he actually knows that Atheists know more about religions than most people and that is why they are atheists in the first place. Na- he can't be that educated.
Another idiot, do they ever sleep?
I figured he was mixing up 'pagans' with 'hippies'. He still sounded like an idiot.
This is a bad thing how? If a woman is allowed to have sex when she wishes without guilt or fear of pregnancy, I believe that is all to the good.
