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Got Faith? Which One? Gordon Newby Discusses How Stupak Amendment Favors One Religious Ideology at the Expense of Others

By Jodi Jacobson, Senior Political Editor

November 13, 2009 - 8:06am

Jodi Jacobson's picture

In a must-read piece in this morning's Religion Dispatches, Gordon D. Newby makes a clear--and overdue--case why the Stupak amendment undermines not only women's reproductive and sexual rights, but also abrogates the rights of all of us to freedom of religion.

"The debate about abortion, particularly as connected to healthcare reform, has been characterized as a “conservative” versus “liberal” debate," writes Newby.

What is missed in that characterization is the fact that the foundational theologies among Jews, Muslims, and even many otherwise “conservative” Christians are more nuanced and complicated than the simplistic and absolutist stands taken by the “C Street” Democrats and their supporters.

Because it takes rests on only one religious view, "The recently passed House Healthcare Bill might be paving the way to enact religious discrimination into law; on the important and fundamental issues of life and health, many religious Americans will be unable to live and act according to their own religious consciences and beliefs," contends Newby.

By largely removing the possibility of abortion from the American healthcare system, even in cases where the health and life of the mother is at risk, the Stupak amendment "goes beyond current law and practice and inserts the theological views of a vocal religious minority as a roadblock to the religious beliefs and practices of many Americans," he argues.

In Jewish tradition, for example, fertility and childbirth are celebrated, but abortion is neither forbidden nor regarded as murder in the Rabbinic Jewish system.

In Judaism, the fetus does not have the status of “person” with a separate juridical “personhood” until its head emerges from the womb. In the Mishnah, the foundational work of Rabbinic law, we are told: “If a woman suffers difficult labor in childbirth, the fetus must be cut up in her womb and brought out piece by piece, for her life takes precedence over its life. If [however] its greater part has [already] come out, it must not be touched, for the [claims of one] life can not supersede [that of another] life.” (Oholoth 7:6) On the basis of this, Rabbis have consistently argued that the health of the mother must take precedence over the fetus. This position was clearly expounded by one of the most famous rabbis, Moses Maimonides.

As additional evidence that the fetus is not a person, it cannot receive gifts, and if aborted or lost by miscarriage, it cannot receive a Jewish name or receive a Jewish funeral. Rabbinic discussions of when the soul enters the fetus are not part of the conversations about abortion in Judaism. The Rabbis were interested in ensoulment, the moment that the soul and the body were joined, but there was no agreement about the issue. And, the soul in Judaism is pure soul and immortal whether joined to the body or not and is not entangled in anything like the Christian notion of “Original Sin.” Most Rabbis agree that trivial or material reasons for abortion are to be condemned, but that abortion for the life and health of the mother is both permissible and mandated. Anything that limits this mandate restricts the Jewish mother from acting in a fully Jewish way.

Newby discusses the nuances of views on abortion in Islam, among the world’s Buddhists, and in Hinduism. Protestant Christians vary widely in their views on abortion and often hold views that are not reflected in the pronouncements of their church’s hierarchy, thus following the principle of the primacy of individual conscience.

You can, and should(!) read the entire piece here.

Finally, Newby underscores what is often lost in this debate even in regard to Catholicism: Things have changed.

It should be remembered that on this issue there is no unanimity among Christians either now or in the historical past. St. Augustine held that ensoulment occurred sometime after the beginning of the growth of the fetus and that abortion was not homicide. He, like other theologians of his time, was more concerned with whether abortion was being used to cover up the greater sin of fornication or adultery. In the late sixteenth century, Pope Sixtus V held that both contraception and abortion were homicide and punishable by excommunication, but his immediate successor, Pope Gregory XIV, held that this view was in conflict with Church practice and the theological views of ensoulment. Only in modern times has the Roman Catholic Church generally condemned all forms of abortion, even therapeutic abortions meant to save the life of the mother.

If the House healthcare bill is allowed to stand and becomes the basis for new legislation, writes Newby, "religious Americans across the spectrum of faiths will be subjected to limitations that will contravene their faith’s most well-considered and cherished views about the major questions of life, reproduction, and freedom of religious conscience, which freedoms were imagined by our nation's founders as central to the nature of our country."

 

 


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By largely removing the possibility of abortion from the American healthcare system, even in cases where the health and life of the mother is at risk

 

I assume that you haven't actually read the text of the Stupak ammendment:

 

No funds authorized or appropriated by the Act (or amendment made by this Act) may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, or unless the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.

 

This amendment does not "remove the possibility of abortion in America". Elective abortions are still $400 a pop, any time you want one.

Submitted by jeornom on November 13, 2009 - 2:20pm.

I didn't mean to emphasize "physical illness" in my citation above. My point remains that abortion remains legal, and that Stupak allows for coverage when the life of the mother is in danger.

Submitted by jeornom on November 13, 2009 - 2:47pm.

First, this is part of an analysis by Dr. Newby.

Second, the effect of banning coverage in both the insurance exchange and from plans for which women pay 100 percent of the premium with their own money will both make it far, far  more difficult for women to procure an early safe abortion (the intention of the bishops and the fundamentalists in this country from day one) and make it "effectively" disappear from the healthcare system.

You can read me all the text you want.  Many of us have spent a good deal of our careers watching these laws passed--seemingly innocuous on their face, devastating in practical terms--and this is the intent of the Stupak amendment.

Moreover, even the phrase "certified by a doctor" is no protection.  Every single procedure performed by Dr. Tiller was "certified by another doctor" and not only did the Kansas AG needlessly harass him with charge after unproven charge, he was also killed by a member of the lunatic fringe....remember?

 

Submitted by Jodi Jacobson, Senior Political Editor on November 13, 2009 - 4:42pm.

Jeornom, wrote "Elective abortions are still $400 a pop, any time you want one." Glib, oversimplified, and, I suggest, lacking compassion for the many women who are poor. 

Submitted by KateRanieri on November 15, 2009 - 3:44pm.

Most women have a difficult time choosing to have an abortion at any stage of a pregnancy. As a retired ED nurse, I have seen the tragedies of too many pregnancies and uterine infections from many causes. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. Don't block the way for women who have become pregnant for whatever reason and don't feel ready for a child or whatever. Most women who need these services can't afford $400.00 for that service. Women should have the right to contraceptive meds or devices. Male impotence drugs are covered in most health plans but contraception meds or procedures are sometimes not. I smell a lot of discrimination in this.

Submitted by Doris V. on November 13, 2009 - 6:34pm.

Not only does this smell like gender discrimination, it reeks of religious influence from Catholics and fundamentalists. This whole country is weird about gender and religion. To my thinking, unless women have the same rights as men, including health care and bodily autonomy, they will remain second class citizens. If women protested at urology clinics because the doctors prescribed Viagra or Cialis, they'd be arrested for disorderly conduct. But prolifers can and do protest at abortion clinics with impunity. 

 

And as for religion, have you noticed when a white wackadoodle kills an abortion doctor, the media and government don't question his virtue because of his whiteness or label him as a Christian terrorist. They seldom, if ever, link him to other groups of rabid prolifers. If a Muslim killed someone in the U.S., the rhetoric from 9-11 would fill the airwaves. His religion would be called into question. (just look at what happened at Ft. Hood). His affiliations with imams and mosques, his correspondence and his travels would all be suspect. 

 

Sign me disgusted.... 

Submitted by KateRanieri on November 15, 2009 - 3:39pm.

[T]he Stupak amendment undermines not only women's reproductive and sexual rights, but also abrogates the rights of all of us to freedom of religion.

 

Jodi,

 

Stupak wasn't written to take sides on any religious question, it's purpose is to protect the conscience rights of half the American people.

 

Some people reach a Pro-Life conviction because they've come to agree with the teachings of their church, some people reach a Pro-Life conviction despite the fact that their church doesn't take a clear stand against abortion, some people reach a Pro-Life conviction despite the fact that they do not affiliate with any church.  Everyone who takes a Pro-Life position, irrespective of the path that led them to that position, has a strong moral objection to allowing their own money to be spent for an abortion. 

 

Universal Health Care is an idea I've always supported; but when the society guarantees health care, the people in the society are supporting all the procedures guaranteed under the health care program.

 

When 50% of the population is asserting, not only that a certain procedure isn't medically necessary, but that that procedure offends their moral principles, it's a good idea to keep that procedure out of the health care program.

 

Jodi claims that supporters of Stupak (such as myself) intend to make it more difficult for women to access abortion.  That's certainly not my intention.  I would actually be pleased if those who mistakenly believe that the guarantee of elective abortion is supportive of women's health would establish a fund to provide free abortions to poor women.  Is it hard for you to understand why I wouldn't want to contribute to that fund?  Adding elective abortion to the list of procedures covered by Universal Health Care forces me to do just that.

 

We're never going to provide protection for the unborn by making abortion unaffordable, by making abortion inconvenient, by making abortion illegal or by making abortion unsafe.  I didn't come to support Stupak because I thought that doing so would protect the very young from health and safety risks.  I did so because I assert a right to decline to support procedures I happen to believe are immoral.

 

This isn't about deciding whose religious doctrines are 'correct'.  The government supports conscientious objection in other areas -- even if that objection has its roots in religious practice.  I can agree to respect someone's conscience without fearing that the religious doctrines that support that conscience are going to be improperly imposed on me.

 

Paul Bradford

Pro-Life Catholics for Choice

Submitted by Paul Bradford, Pro Life Catholics for Choice on November 15, 2009 - 6:01pm.

Paul wrote, "Adding elective abortion to the list of procedures covered by Universal Health Care forces me to do just that." Well what about other coverage that I morally oppose? Are you suggesting that your moral opposition trumps my moral opposition? Sure sounds like it!

 

Paul also wrote, "I can agree to respect someone's conscience without fearing that the religious doctrines that support that conscience are going to be improperly imposed on me." Define improperly, Paul. If my religious conscience fails your definition, does that make me wrong and you right?  Your comment sounds like double talk.

Submitted by KateRanieri on November 15, 2009 - 6:21pm.

Well what about other coverage that I morally oppose? Are you suggesting that your moral opposition trumps my moral opposition? Sure sounds like it!

 

Kate,

 

Are you even trying to listen to my point of view?  I certainly do not suggest that my moral opposition trumps anyone else's.

 

Name me one other procedure that gets covered as health care that a sizable number of people claim constitutes an injustice against another human being.  Is there one that you so claim?  If you can convince me that there's anything covered by Universal Health Care that truly offends your conscience, I will happily join you in your opposition and urge my Senators to have it omitted from the bill. 

 

 

If my religious conscience fails your definition, does that make me wrong and you right? Your comment sounds like double talk.

 

You really have a low opinion of me, don't you?  You act as if I've inserted 'improperly' as a sort of ace-in-the-hole to make me right and you wrong.

 

If you're telling me that your religious convictions lead you to the conclusion that a certain health care procedure is unethical I'm really interested in hearing your point of view.  If you're actually on the level, I'll be the first to say that you shouldn't have to support it.  I'm actually willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and maintain a high opinion of you.  I'm sure you wouldn't simply drum something up in order to make some lame point.

 

Paul Bradford

Pro-Life Catholics for Choice

Submitted by Paul Bradford, Pro Life Catholics for Choice on November 15, 2009 - 6:57pm.

What if it is someone's religious belief/deeply held moral conviction that a health care system that doesn't cover all aspects of health care - including comprehensive reproductive health care, which encompasses elective and therapeutic abortion - is immoral? Why, Paul, should your religious beliefs trump theirs?

 

And could you please stop writing in Newspeak?

Submitted by Emma on November 17, 2009 - 12:19am.

I am sorry, but this is just simply outright naive or purposefully obtuse.

First of all the majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose, EVEN when they self-identify as "pro-life" whatever that means.  Second of all, one third of all women in this country have an abortion in their lifetimes. 

Third, if it's not about religion then why is it that this Amendment was passed at the urging of the Catholic Church, and supported by a group of Congresspeople that belong subscribe either to conservative Catholic practice or evangelical fundamentalism?  

And fourth....your tax dollars are not involved here.  They never were.  Existing law AND the amendment written into the bill this summer---also originally at the urging of the Church--known as the Capps amendment, assured that no federal funding would go to abortion care.

This male patriarchal religious power play is so anti-women and so disgusting it may well be the one thing that will wake women in this country up to the constant erosion of their rights.

Jodi Jacobson

Submitted by Jodi Jacobson, Senior Political Editor on November 15, 2009 - 9:10pm.


Stupak wasn't written to take sides on any religious question, it's purpose is to protect the conscience rights of half the American people. So what about the other half. Are our conscience rights to be disregarded?

 

Some people reach a Pro-Life conviction because they've come to agree with the teachings of their church, some people reach a Pro-Life conviction despite the fact that their church doesn't take a clear stand against abortion, some people reach a Pro-Life conviction despite the fact that they do not affiliate with any church.  Everyone who takes a Pro-Life position, irrespective of the path that led them to that position, has a strong moral objection to allowing their own money to be spent for an abortion. Paul, it's not THEIR money. The money collected from the public in the form of taxes is distributed per programmatic guidelines. For example, I utterly loathe the fact that former GW Bush took this country into an unnecessary war in Iraq. Your money and my money fund this illegal invasion. But guess what, we have no choice.

 

Universal Health Care is an idea I've always supported; but when the society guarantees health care, the people in the society are supporting all the procedures guaranteed under the health care program. Oh, I get it...just like universal freedom in the US unless you're young, male and black. Then all bets are off. 

 

When 50% of the population is asserting, not only that a certain procedure isn't medically necessary, 50% of the population is not a logical standard. If 50% were physicians that might be a different argument.  but that that procedure offends their moral principles, it's a good idea to keep that procedure out of the health care program.

 

Jodi claims that supporters of Stupak (such as myself) intend to make it more difficult for women to access abortion.  That's certainly not my intention.  I would actually be pleased if those who mistakenly believe that the guarantee of elective abortion is supportive of women's health would establish a fund to provide free abortions to poor women.  Is it hard for you to understand why I wouldn't want to contribute to that fund?  Adding elective abortion to the list of procedures covered by Universal Health Care forces me to do just that. You're beginning to whine too much.

 

We're never going to provide protection for the unborn by making abortion unaffordable, by making abortion inconvenient, by making abortion illegal or by making abortion unsafe. Who are "We" in this drive to provide protection? What about the autonomy of the women? Or don't they count? I didn't come to support Stupak because I thought that doing so would protect the very young from health and safety risks.  I did so because I assert a right to decline to support procedures I happen to believe are immoral.

 

This isn't about deciding whose religious doctrines are 'correct'. How can you say that when you're all about your religion? There are many religions that find no problem with abortion.  The government supports conscientious objection in other areas -- even if that objection has its roots in religious practice. Like refusing medical care such as blood transfusions? There's no cost issue when someone refuses or objects.  I can agree to respect someone's conscience without fearing that the religious doctrines that support that conscience are going to be improperly imposed on me. But what happens when a majority have a conscience not based in a particular religious doctrine. Do they count in your indoctrinated worldview?

 

 

Submitted by KateRanieri on November 15, 2009 - 9:20pm.

Are you even trying to listen to my point of view? I read what you wrote. I certainly do not suggest that my moral opposition trumps anyone else's.
*I beg to differ.*

Name me one other procedure that gets covered as health care that a sizable number ***before you said half the American people*** of people claim constitutes an injustice against another human being. ***The problem with this sentence is that you seem to suggest that the zygote/embryo/fetus is another human being while in utero***
Is there one that you so claim? If you can convince me that there's anything covered by Universal Health Care that truly offends your conscience, I will happily join you in your opposition and urge my Senators to have it omitted from the bill.

***I do not want to fund any erectile dysfunction drugs, any surgeries that treat erectile dysfunction, any treatment in nursing homes, any treatment of stage 4 cancer, or any treatments that keep people with flat EEGs or EKGs artificially alive (like Terri Schiavo). These treatments are all a waste of taxpayer money.**

You really have a low opinion of me, don't you? ** I do not know you. But I do know that you are quick to make assumptions*** You act **I didn’t act, I wrote*** as if I've inserted 'improperly' as a sort of ace-in-the-hole to make me right and you wrong. **If the shoe fits . . .**

If you're telling me that your religious convictions lead you to the conclusion that a certain health care procedure is unethical I'm really interested in hearing your point of view. ** I'm telling you that conscience leads me to my conclusions. I don't believe in organized religion, especially Catholicism** If you're actually on the level, I'll be the first to say that you shouldn't have to support it. I'm actually willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and maintain a high opinion of you. I'm sure you wouldn't simply drum something up in order to make some lame point.
** Don't trouble yourself""

Submitted by KateRanieri on November 15, 2009 - 8:59pm.

The mere fact that something can be defended or proposed in religious terms does not mean that it can only be defended or proposed in religious terms.

Unless someone can show that the Stupak Amendment can only be rationalized on strictly religious dogmatic reasons, this discussion is irrelevant.

Submitted by waterjoe on November 16, 2009 - 9:51am.

The mere fact that someone can boot up his computer and type does not mean he's capable of making a rational argument

The only difference between the American anti-abortion movement and the Taliban is about 8,000 miles.

Dr Warren Hern, MD

Submitted by colleen on November 16, 2009 - 12:09pm.