We Already Have an Abortion Pride Movement
by Marcy Bloom, GIRE
April 13, 2009 - 8:00am (Print)
The importance of abortion as a human right integral to women's dignity, the destigmatization and normalization of the experience as common for women - there are now more than 46 million abortions occurring in the world today (close to half of which are illegal and unsafe) and one in three U.S. women will have an abortion by the age of 45 - and ending the silence and shame that women may still feel cannot be underestimated in the global struggle for reproductive justice and gender equality. When we normalize abortion as a fact of women's lives, and discuss abortion as an honorable and loving choice that helps women to become better mothers in the future, we are showing respect, understanding, and support for the complexity of women's choices.
So it was with great interest that I read and reflected upon Jacob Appel's "It's Time for an Abortion Pride Movement." This author and bioethicist emphasizes: "The political and social reality today is that pride is a necessary prerequisite for acceptance and equality. That is why the movement is ripe - more than ripe - for an Abortion Pride Movement."
I passionately agree. I also believe that the framework for such a movement already exists and is quite powerful. Talking about abortion pride as a social change movement, destigmatizing abortion - and by extension, destigmatizing women - are concepts I have believed in and fought for all of my adult life. Apple refers to the stigma that abortion still carries: "In contrast to women who have foregone abortion, women who have chosen to terminate their pregnancies are rarely encouraged to take pride in their decisions. This is unfortunate...women who step up to the ethical plate and have the strength to say, ‘This is the wrong time,' or ‘This is the wrong fetus,' should hold their heads up high in the street."
Yes, they should - and many do. I also agree with the writer - because I witnessed it for more than 35 years in my clinical work of abortion care provision - that the difficulty and pain of a private decision such as an abortion that a woman may feel does not mean that she has any doubt regarding the moral clarity and ethical foundation of her abortion choice. We all frequently experience ambivalence when faced with a deep and life-changing crossroads in our lives, and the choice of an abortion is an example of that. Women can feel initial sadness, but simultaneously know what she needs to do, that the abortion is the absolute best choice, and ultimately feel resolution, peace, and pride. In fact, many women do feel goodness, empowerment, increased self-esteem, and pride in the wisdom and the awareness that they took control of a frequently chaotic situation - unwanted pregnancy - and made a moral and ethical decision that was beneficial for their lives, their futures, and, ultimately, was also good for society.
Of course, we don't live in that world yet. Like Appel, describing abortion as safe, legal, and rare" has always deeply offended me...the rare part, that is. Should women be rare? Should our sexuality and sexual expression be rare? Should abortion providers be rare? (They already are.) Should sexual activity be rare? It is, of course, unwanted pregnancy that needs to be rare. Unfortunately, due to misogynistic beliefs and policies, it isn't. As a result, there needs to be as many safe, legal, accessible, funded, and compassionate abortions as women freely chose. As Appel writes: "Choice is merely a foundation. Ultimately, women - if they so desire - should feel comfortable expressing public pride in their brave and wise choices."
Of course they should - and this is the goal of the movement for the normalization of abortion. Women are already speaking out about their abortions, normalizing its occurrence in our lives, and sharing feelings about the importance of voluntary motherhood. This is not a trivialization - a common anti-choice attack - but a recognition of the significance that the abortion experience has in women's lives. We actually already have an Abortion Pride Movement. We need to make it more powerful, more visible, and more influential as a social justice change mechanism and continue to strive to change attitudes about abortion. Society needs to know that safe abortion is a moral good for women, understand more fully why women make this choice, and provide support and respect for women's moral and ethical decision-making. We need to create a world where a woman having an abortion is as respected and supported as a woman having a baby. As the movement for abortion pride and the recognition of women's human rights progresses, we will continue to speak out with our voices, our experiences, our bodies - and our lives. YES - ABORTION PRIDE!
"Abortion pride" -- "I have the coping skills of a guppy, so I destroy my own young. Somebody validate me before I throw a tantrum!"
ChristinaD you said it beautifully.
No one reads my lousy antichoice blob, I mean blog, because it's so pathetic.
Frank says "YAY Obama!"
"The importance of abortion as a human right integral to women's dignity..."
Read the article over, and replace the word "abortion" with the word "infanticide." Why on earth should a woman's right to choose end with the delivery of her fetus? Maybe she won't figure out that she's not cut out for motherhood until a few weeks after the birth! Surely, her "human rights" include the right to chuck the unwanted baby in the trash...
What a sad world we live in, that there are actually women celebrating the fact that they have killed their unborn child! I can't imagine ANY woman feeling good about that!
I wanted to share this video with everyone... it's from a *gasp* young BLACK conservative (bet you didn't see THAT coming!) where he share's his opinion on abortion and the situation with Bristol Palin, amongst other things.
*Warning* This video may cause your head to explode if you happen to be a pro-abortion fem-bot... watch with caution (and an open mind, ha!)
ChristinaD,
Go back under the rock you crawled out from under. If yon't agree with, then you don't have to have one. Leave the rest of us alone.
Yay, women should not feel shame about abortion! Ignore idiots like the ChristianDs, the Rush Limbaughs, & Pat Robertsons...
Hmm. Let me see. Having an abortion is something you celebrate someone for. Speaking an opinion that is different than yours is something you scorn someone for. Let me guess. You are a Liberal?
So, if Christina doesn't like abortions, she shouldn't have one? Gee, that's pretty compelling. Did you think of that one all by yourself, or did you get it from a NOW pamplet?
I suppose, if Christina is against murder, burglary, arson, and treason, she shouldn't commit those crimes, but should mind her own business if other people want to, right?
Don't tell people to crawl under rocks when your own arguments make you sound like you've been hit in the head with too many of them.
Mindless bullies like the one that you mentioned, and I that think most of us do. Mindless msogyonists, I call them.
Thank you for this. As someone who has been a pro-choice activist and volunteer, as someone who has had an abortion, and as someone who currently works in an abortion clinic, I see the need for women to be able to express themselves on this subject. Women know what is right for them.
When women choose abortions based on a fetus' ability, race, gender, or sexual orientation(which may happen as screening for an LGBT gene becomes available) she is not acting based on love, but on what society has conditioned her to think of as love.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
What people apparently don't consider is that the mother who aborts a seriously deformed fetus, or a fetus with severe, even deadly health concerns is that the mother who does this DOES love her child. She loves that child enough to spare him/her the suffering that would come with such a disease. And she loves her existing family enough not to put them through the suffering of watching their child, sibling, grandchild, cousin, neice or nephew suffer a long, drawn out and painful existance. Often these women know the limits of their own emotions enough to know that they themselves could not handle the death of their child from such a disease. Take taysachs (spelling?) for instance. This is a deadly disease that causes a child who carries it to die a slow, horrendous, painful death by the age of five. This genetic illness has no cure, and very limited treatment if any. Can you look into the eyes of your child, who you gave birth to despite knowing the fate awaiting him/her, and tell your own child "I loved you enough to ensure that you have to suffer horribly for the rest of your far too short life" Or would you rather look at that child in the afterlife (if you believe in one) and tell them "I loved you enough to spare you the suffering that I knew you would have to endure if I had continued the pregnancy." For me, this is an easy choice.
In the matter of less deadly ailments, mental defeciencies, etc, I believe the choice is up to the parents. The parents know can they handle such a special needs child? Will the child be shipped off to some institutation like sending an unwanted dog to the pound, or will they be able to handle his/her care at home? Do they believe that their child has a chance in the already overstressed foster system where special needs children linger for years until they age out. Do the parents think they could find an adoptive family on their own to give their child they would want that child to have but can't offer him/her themselves?
The anti choice side of this debate is ignoring the intense amount of choice and decision that goes into such a thing. They assume all women who get abortions, look down at the positive pregnancy test, and shrug as they get their purses and head down to the local abortion clinic without a second though. The fact is that these women consider this decision for weeks before coming to the conclusion that for them, abortion is the best solution to their situation. To you it is an easy choice to bear the child no matter what, but for the woman who has an abortion, the lines are not so easily black and white and every shade of gray is considered thoroughly.
Equal rights, equal responsibilities.
Thank you for writing this. I live in a small rural community, which I've lived in for the past 10 years. Most people, especially women, are outspoken about their religious beliefs as though there is no other legitimate point of view. It was refreshing to read your words.
In fact, many women do feel goodness, empowerment, increased self-esteem, and pride in the wisdom and the awareness that they took control of a frequently chaotic situation - unwanted pregnancy - and made a moral and ethical decision that was beneficial for their lives, their futures, and, ultimately, was also good for society.
As one of the many women who experienced all of those feelings and more I wanted to thank you for writing this. In addition to feeling all of those things, I believe that my choice changed my life in such an incredibly positive way and ultimately helped me to become the mother I am today. I've said (more times than I can remember) that one need not gestate an unintended pregnancy in order to benefit from the experience.
~God Bless!
Did you really say, "God Bless"? Are you so clueless you think God sanctions abortion. I had no idea the contortions one's mind can perform.
Despite your objections, opinions and personal beliefs... yes, God loves women who have abortions. Are you not satisfied with wanting control over the personal life choices of others, that you feel it necessary to control the very words we choose? Sounds a bit to control freaky for me. I'm just sayin'.
Of course God loves women who have abortions. He loves every single person on this Earth. However, he does not love reprehensible acts. God does not love the killing of babies. If you can't separate the two and want to play the victim, I'm sorry.
However, he does not love reprehensible acts.
Well that's fabulous because terminating ones pregnancy is not a reprehensible act.
God does not love the killing of babies
Certainly not (although, if you're a bible reader, you may believe otherwise.) But then, nobody on this site advocates killing babies. I think it's safe to say that, on the whole, none of us "love the killing of babies."
If you can't separate the two and want to play the victim, I'm sorry.
What the who now? What victim? And what are you sorry for? Further, I am perfectly capable of acknowledging (and accepting) the differences between women terminating their pregnancies and the death of children... are you?
Are you so clueless you think God sanctions abortion.
I get it that, being a woman and all, I'm not entitled to an opinion on the subject but since you ask, I don't believe anyone on the conservative religious right has the slightest notion what God does and does not want. No one in their right mind and with an ounce of discernment would go to any of you for spiritual advice. You're all about authority, abuse and dominion.
whether or not you hate the religious 'right' is not relevant.
God created life and it is not our's to destroy.
You can't pick and choose which life is more important-humans animals the planet. You have to pick all because God created ALL. Without respect,self respect there will be no resolve.
You're all about authority, abuse and dominion.
And the left isn't? You want AUTHORITY over an innocent defenseless child, so you can commit the ultimate ABUSE of murder, and all this so to establish the DOMINION of women as 'gatekeepers of life'. Hypocrite.
That God doesn't sanction safe and legal abortion for the women of the world? You think that only people who think like you can say God bless for it to mean anything? Think again!
"I've said (more times than I can remember) that one need not gestate an unintended pregnancy in order to benefit from the experience.
~God Bless! "
On the contrary, in order to experience the blessing of knowing that baby, that girl/boy, that grown woman/man, one must indeed gestate that unintended pregnancy. One certainly can "benefit" from one's college education NOT having been put on hold for how ever long, or from not having to turn down whatever employment opportunities become available due to gestating that unintended pregnancy--but those benefits are strictly material, and entirely earthly in nature.
Speaking as one who had a college education derailed by an unintended pregnancy, and career put on hold indefinitely to raise gifted, and precocious children, I am quite sensitive to the sacrifices I have had to make subsequent to the one allowing the one innocent party to my sexual freedom, mere survival, let alone her own pursuit of happiness. Nevertheless, having been there, I recognize the false arguments of convenience versus that mere survival. It IS after all a life or death decision. My daughter is HERE, she is alive to receive her awards in Latin and strings, to laugh and cry, to play tennis and ski--to love and be loved because I recognized I was NOT the end all and be all in our temporarily shared universe of me.
Well said. The day women realise that the universe does not revolve around them alone, but there is an unborn HUMAN BEING involved, THEN the world might change.
... you could try, but you would not be successful.
On the contrary, in order to experience the blessing of knowing that baby, that girl/boy, that grown woman/man, one must indeed gestate that unintended pregnancy
Reading comprehension not your strong suit, eh? The statement that I made was "I've said (more times than I can remember) that one need not gestate an unintended pregnancy in order to benefit from the experience." and that statement is absolutely spot on. Not only did I benefit greatly from being able to decide that gestating that pregnancy was not in my best interest nor the best interest my family, but I was able to go on to have two more beautiful children (in addition to the son I already had) and be the mother, wife and woman that I am today. I would not change a single thing regarding that time in my life, not the circumstances surrounding that pregnancy nor the fact that I chose to terminate the pregnancy.
Nevertheless, having been there, I recognize the false arguments of convenience versus that mere survival
Since you were responding to my post I feel it necessary to make you aware of the fact that you have not "been there" (there being where I was)... your personal life experiences are your own and I certainly wouldn't presume to take those away from you. However, the "false argument" and "convenience" comments are nothing but personal insults, false judgement and suppositions on your part which I'm afraid say vastly more about you than they ever could about me or my life choices. Your moral relativism aside, you can rest assured that not only was terminating my pregnancy the best, most moral and just choice... it is the choice I would make again under those same circumstances. That you dislike my choice is completely and utterly irrelevant.
When I was young, I ended up unexpected pregnant and was assured it was a simple procedure, that the child within was merely a clump of cells, that I could have children on my own timing, not before I was ready. What a bunch of garbage. I fought for years to hold onto the belief that what I'd done was fine, all the while heaping tons of anger around the subject to protect the tender ground it covered. You know, down deep, despite how I protested, I knew I'd done something wrong, I knew I'd failed my own child who didn't deserve the death penalty.
I had expected to have a large family, something I'd always wanted but figured I could wait until the time was right. Well, now I've passed menopause, and I only have one child. What happened to the promises of Planned Parenthood, that I could have my kids on my own timetable. Guess it doesn't always work out that way, does it? I should have appreciated the gift of life when I received it.
Oh well, too late now. Am I proud of my abortion? Not even when I was vehemently Pro-Choice was I ever Proud of that act. Never was, never could be. Deep down, I've always known it was a terrible thing I've done. And I've never been deluded enough to have pride in it.
My heart goes out to you.
Wow! I was just about to leave my comment but saw yours as I was scrolling down to the comment form. You've expressed exactly what I was going to say! I grew up in the 70s and abortion was drummed into our young minds as something to be proud of and the only true way to empower yourself. It was even presented as just another birth control (as invasive as it is). Now I'm staring at menopause ahead as I raise my one child.
I also want to point out that these feelings they put on display for abortion never show those women who realize too late that despite their other situations, the regrets from this choice come even bigger. If you decide from experience that abortion was the wrong move, you don't get a voice with the abortionists. But I share my experience. I tell the younger women there's more to consider that people don't talk about.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Ditto.
"Am I proud of my abortion? Not even when I was vehemently Pro-Choice was I ever Proud of that act. Never was, never could be. Deep down, I've always known it was a terrible thing I've done. And I've never been deluded enough to have pride in it."
DITTO. I argued for abortion rights when I was in college, but never, ever, EVER would I admit to anyone that I'd had one. I knew what I had done was wrong, wrong, wrong. Never in a million years would I be "proud" of my selfish, cowardly decision.
On the abortion table, after being doped up with Valium, I started sobbing and saying I'd changed my mind and to please stop. The "nurse" just pushed me back down and said everyone has last minute jitters, and that I'd be fine.
I was NOT fine. It has taken over 20 years to work through the guilt and shame. And, please... the guilt and shame aren't from society. They're from the fact that ABORTION.IS.WRONG. Period. I killed my own child, my own flesh and blood.
That "guilt" ... that "shame" that women feel after an abortion? It's how you are SUPPOSED to feel. That's your conscious, people!
Abortion Pride... ugh. Someone please tell me this is a sick joke!
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I'm sorry you were deceived into sacrificing your first child.
God Bless You.
No one would push her back down on the table, what a liar she is!!
That's right, Jan. It didn't happen that way because you were there, right? All bad people fall into the pro life camp, and there are no corrupt abortion doctors! Thanks for enlightening us.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
That's right, Jan. It didn't happen that way because you were there, right? All bad people fall into the pro life camp, and there are no corrupt abortion doctors!
I'll allow that maybe this occurred, decades ago when abortion clinics were not run as tightly as they are today. However, it remains suspect, because the pro-life side frequently resorts to misrepresentations to support their cause (refer to CPC operational guides, for example).
In any event, you certainly wouldn't see this today, because pro-choicers would be the first to ensure that the patient's rights and consent are respected. There's no point in being pro-choice, after all, if you don't respect the woman's choice.
(Abortion providers are not necessarily saints, but if their heart weren't in their work, don't you think they'd opt for a less stressful career?)
Her name is Aubrey. She is my daughter. She died in an abortion clinic in Minneapolis on September 5th, 1990. There is no pride in the killing of your own child.
Dear anonymous,
I was told the same lies you were. We are not alone.
and to you.
instead of a stillbirth, it is an abortion. Gee your story just keeps on changing, but I remember you from another post. So, you regret your safe and legal abortion, and want to waste the rest of your life trying to take that right or choice away from other women due to guilt, after YOUR burden was relieved. NICE. Hypocritical, TOO.
For info on post abortion grief and counseling to to Priestsforlife.org or google silent no more. The silent no more group is international and consists of women who have had abortions and are speaking out (finally) about the harm it has done to them and their loved ones.
That is NOT counseling, even if it does further your women hating agenda. Abortion does no harm to a woman or her loved ones. What most women I know have felt, and my friends have told me about their abortions, and I even accompanied one to a clinic so that she could have one (the protesters are really crazy people-she said that they just affirmed to her that she was making the right decision to not gestate her fetus and bring it into this crazy world) is RELIEF. I know that isn't every woman, but most.
I think we should also start obesity related pride movements, cigarette smoking pride movements, drug abusers pride movements, divorce pride movements, pollution pride movements, etc.
Everyone should take pride in their choices, no matter who is affected by them or dies because of them, because choices are more important than people, right Marcy???
Your post is spot on. The lunacy of this "abortion pride movement" here is beyond frightening.
Abortion pride? This article nauseates me. As if the snuffing out of an innocent life is a cause for pride and accomplishment.
the rights of women as the gateway to human life...? so you choose to be the gateway that takes human life? unbelievable.
the rights of women? what about the rights of unborn CHILDREN. at some point, the rights of unborn children should be protected. someone should look out for them. someone should speak for them because they cannot.
pro choice? except for the child who's life is terminated.
Christ help us all, especially the author of this trash and other morons who are so "proud" of taking an innocent life. You people are definitely carrying out satan's work when you promote killing of an innocent life. Oh, and by the way, your bodies belong to God, and not you, so get off your egocentric trip of self-importance. "Abortion pride", give me a freakin break !!!
You people are definitely carrying out satan's work when you promote killing of an innocent life. Oh, and by the way, your bodies belong to God, and not you, so get off your egocentric trip of self-importance.
Craig, women's bodies belong to themselves, not to some sectarian deity. And the only "Satan's work" that is happening here is that women are making the choices that are right for them, and are no longer listening to your Stone-age rhetoric. The sham is over.
You set up the deity as a strawman. If someone believes or doesn't believe, it doesn't change the fact that a fetus is alive. It's human. And, it can't make it's own decisions. So - there is NOTHING that you can say that doesn't make the act the TAKING OF A HUMAN LIFE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
Nothing!!
Tell yourself what you want to make yourself feel better. The bottom line is that you knew and ignored the consequences of sex, or didn't use contraceptives. You should learn what happens when you have sex before you choose to ignore the consequences.
The bottom line is that you knew and ignored the consequences of sex, or didn't use contraceptives. You should learn what happens when you have sex before you choose to ignore the consequences.
Sometimes, the sex is not consensual. Sometimes, contraception fails. Sometimes, reliable contraception isn't even available.
The real world isn't nearly as simple as you'd like it to be.
there are 5000 abortions per day in the US. Are you trying to say that these 5000 abortions are to end 5000 forced sexual acts that ended in pregnancy? Are you that stupid and evil? This is a matter of life vs. convenience nothing more.
The life you ended in the name of your convenience is a human life. Take precautions, that is what an adult would do. Sex is in the realm of adults, not self centered nitwits. nitwits who then demand the right to murder in order not to be inconvenienced by there lack of responsibility.
Is a part of someone else's body, you anti choicers have nothing to say about it. It is NOT your business, no matter how much you want to try to make it so. It is a potential life, not a life until seperate and able to breathe and is sanctioned by a birth certificate as a seperate person. Until then,it is the woman's problem or joy. Since she will be the one nurturing and supporting it, it IS up to her whether it becomes a person, like it or not. Those are the FACTS.
As long as my voice, from my voice box, directed by my will and guided by experience and reason agrees with your point of view, I may speak...? But if not, I can "have nothing to say about it"? I'm sorry, but "It is NOT your business, no matter how much you want to try to make it so" to shut me up. Since I "will be the one" guiding my will and reason, it is up to me whether I choose to speak, whether you "like it or not". Are these not "the FACTS"?
Oh, and not to hijack the theme, but "Keep you laws off my guns."
Sorry, any part of your body will have your DNA. The child growing in your body has his/her own unique DNA. That is a FACT.
Sorry, any part of your body will have your DNA. The child growing in your body has his/her own unique DNA.
So, are you making the statement that things like sperm, ova and/or cancer are not a part of the persons body in which they reside or that they do not contain unique DNA?
?? So what, the growing parasite (that is what it is to a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant) has it's own DNA, it is still a part of a woman's body that she doesn't want or need.
The fetus is not a part of his or her mother's body, the child resides within another body. That is a FACT. According to your post, infanticide is acceptable until the birth certificate comes off the printer. Anti-lifers never fail to disappoint.
Listen, you can pretend like there are joyful toddlers residing within the uterus's of women all day long if you'd like. That simply will never change the fact that a pregnancy wouldn't exist if the embryo had not attached itself to the woman's uterus and that if separated, it would fail. The bottom line and the reason why abortion is and will remain legal is that there is no one more qualified than pregnant women to be making decisions regarding their pregnancies. Period. What some third party thinks a pregnancy should mean is utterly irrelevant. And your silly little fallacy of infanticide reflects a serious lack of moral integrity on your part.
By suggesting that women should be beholden to their fertility, even if she doesn't want to nurture or cannot meet the financial obligations to support it once it is born. Maybe she was raped, and does not want a reminder of that horrific experience staring her in the face everyday. Your consistant ignoring of the woman whose body the fetus resides in, no matter how you try to deny that reality with your illogical straw arguments that make no sense, is horrible. I am on the side of the woman, not the clump of cells that is a part of her body, and that SHE, who matters most in this equation, the body who it could not grow without, does not want.
Guess what? You a wrong.
We all do not belong to ourselves.
We belong to the Creator who gave life to us and no amount of your Pride (which He warned us will be our downfall) will change that.
Whether or not you prosper in this world, you will answer to Him for your choices at the throne of judgment.
Then you will know what His will is on this subject.
I pity you.
for believing such fairy tales and living in fear of it. So sad.
Religious mumbo jumbo. Your god/creator is a figment of your imagination.
As long as a foetus is living in and attached to a woman's body, feeding on her nutrient supply, it's not a separate entity. The uniqueness of its DNA is irrelevant; cancer also has unique DNA, and no one's carrying on about rights for tumours.
There's no way to respect women's autonomy and at the same time claim that foetuses have an absolute right to reside in women's uteri, just as there is no way to accept that women are moral agents who are capable of making moral decisions while simultaneously advocating for banning abortion. Anti-choice ideology is, at its base, misogynistic, and there is no way around that.
You do not seem to be able to distinguish between self-affirmation and ethics. Your battle-cry is apparently "Me! Me! Me!"
Perhaps you will have a uterus, be a woman, and know of what you speak. Until then, you and other men will like you who want power and dominance and to keep women barefoot and pregnant and to spew words about some diety most people do not believe in, just to justify your righteous attitude about what women who want to keep their autonomy do with their bodies, are seen for what they really are-mysogonist prepetuators of Patriarchy who have not a CLUE as to anything that they are talking about, and who really have no right to judge women for their choices, regardless of what they are.
I used to be pro-choice, and voted that way.
Then one day in my OR job I was involved in the care of a woman who had a 12 week intra-abdominal pregnancy. The fetus had implanted outside the uterus, she was bleeding into her abdomen and her life was at risk.
What was removed was not a clump of cells - it was a small human and it was living and moving when it was removed. It was a sobering moment for all involved, to watch that fetus die. Seeing that changed my mind.
Contraception is readily available in this country and there is no reason for abortion to occur with the frequency it does. There was a time in my life when I REALLY REALLY did not want to become pregnant. As long as that was my attitude I used two types of contraception (the pill and a spermicide). If you don't want to be pregnant - it's possible to say NO and avoid the situation, and reassess your contraception so you're ready the next time.
There simply cannot be that many contraceptive failures with properly used techniques to account for the number of abortions each year. Nor can there be that many rapes/incest pregnancies and health of the mother situations. I will concede that there are times when abortion is the least of the evils, it's legal(and I don't see it becoming illegal), and its best left between doctor and patient. But ending a life (or potential life - if it soothes your minds to continue to tell yourselves that) is nothing to be proud of. It represents a failure - of birth control at a minimum, or more often of adult responsible behavior.
Contraception is readily available in this country
Not as much as you might think. Contraceptive access is an ongoing problem---many people of lower income cannot afford it, due to lack of subsidies and/or financial assistance. Remember the "$200 million for family planning" debacle that came up in the budget negotiations? It's far from a political slam-dunk, still, in this day and age.
Doesn't planned parenthood as a rule, provide contraception either free or on a sliding scale?
DSHS will pay for advil if there is a prescription written for them. Will they not pay for contraception as well?
Doesn't planned parenthood as a rule, provide contraception either free or on a sliding scale?
I believe so, but that's only where they have a presence, and funding is available. PP is pretty big, but even they can't cover everyone....
If contraception is not available, then maybe they should consider abstinence. That is the problem with society - we are so tolerant of sinful behavior, and in many times condone or celebrate it (just watch that joke of a network - MTV or VH1), and then "excuse it" by saying kids will be kids, or providing whatever means necessary to make the problem go away like abortion, attorneys, etc. If more people were held accountable for their actions, there would be fewer of those actions.
If contraception is not available, then maybe they should consider abstinence
Right, because if you can't afford contraception, you shouldn't be able to enjoy sex. Wait... what? So, if you happen to be born into poverty (as 2,660 children are each day - around 15 million children live beneath the official poverty line) you should be forced to bear a lifetime of celibacy (hey, why don't we just sterilize them while we're at it? @@)
That is the problem with society - we are so tolerant of sinful behavior, and in many times condone or celebrate it
I would beg to differ that the "problem with society" are those who sit in judgement over others while offering no real solutions to these problems. But of course, this is merely my opinion.
While I don't appreciate comments based on religion, as they persuade no one, I've got to wonder how, for these poverty-sticken individuals, contraception is too expensive, but abortions are affordable. And I must ask, why does no one consider adoption? In many cases, a pregnant women can go through with the pregnancy, get all of her medical costs paid for, and know that they are giving their biological child a better start in life than they could have ever given them. So many sterile couples are waiting for children and willing to pay big bucks for them. But I think I can answer my own question. If a woman went through with the pregnancy and gave up the child, she would feel the loss of that child. It's just so much easier to convince yourself that it was never a person to begin with.
Let's enforce mandatory vasectomies for any man who fathers more than one unwanted pregnancy. THEN we'll see who believes in control of one's own body.
We are a sick nation
We are a sick vile Human race, to think we would eat tortured animals for our own glutonous desires, to think we would kill off hundreds of species not our own, to think we would destroy the only planet we can survive on. Yes we are a sick HUMAN race. You want to save all of us???? are you nuts!! Of course you are you are a HUman sick one just like me but I am ashamed of the human race I am ashamed to be a human and I mind my own buisiness.
Like a country where there are no abortion rights. You know what those few places are called?? Third world "devoloping" countries, because 95% of developed countries where women have some rights, abortion is legal in some or all instances.
Here's a thought. You want to empower women, create gender equality? How about finding a way that doesn't require invasive scraping of her uterus and possibly sending her into years of emotional upheaval or a scarred uterus with decreased fertility? We've come a long way in medicine and we can now prove paternity. Want to eliminate (or cut way back on the need) for abortion? Sue the fathers and make them take custody. Try single fatherhood. Bet that raises the sale of condoms or even generates demand for vasectomies, maybe even generates demand for a male pill. And don't even bother to say how a woman shouldn't have to be an incubator. It takes 2 to get pregnant.
Where's the argument to make the men accountable and responsible? Why does the penalty for either choice have to be completely on a woman's shoulders?
Where's the argument to make the men accountable and responsible? Why does the penalty for either choice have to be completely on a woman's shoulders?
Um... if a woman decides to carry a child to term, and raise it, then the father is most certainly on the hook for child support. That risk has always been there for the man.
Not that this justifies restricting the right to abortion, of course. Remember that it remains her choice---and that, in terms of medical risk, it is still a much safer procedure than going through late pregnancy and childbirth.
Oh please! Paying for raising a child is the easy part! Pay for it AND get up for the feedings, deal with the teachers calling, rush them to the hospital when they do those stunts on their skateboard. Stay home every night helping with homework. Watch your dating life ... disappear. No, don't try to say merely cutting a check once a month is equal.
I stand by what I said. Sue the fathers to RAISE the children and we'll see by far less need for abortions. And your stats must be provided by Marcy on abortion being safer than full-term pregnancy.
That's a lie. I recognize it because I've had to undergo most procedures for abortion personally, and I've had the privilege of going through childbirth as well: and as a reasoning, thinking, responsible woman, I read up on and researched the subject.
I've lost four children, all in second trimester...some quite late, including one at 20 weeks, so I've been through everything from the 'run of the mill' D&C to a D&E. I've gone through Cytotech--and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy if I HAD one! I've also gone through two C-Sections, and two V-BAC's. There's simply no truth to the above statement that terminating a pregnancy at any stage, is easier on the female body than childbirth, and there's not a little evidence that terminating one's first pregnancy doesn't add more risk of Breast Cancer than going through pregnancy early in one's adult life. (The C.I. for abortion in first trimester was more significant than for early menses in multiple studies--early menses being an already accepted 'risk factor' for Breast Cancer) The information is there to find, if you don't mind wading through abstracts!
I want to offer up my heartfelt thanks to you brave women who are sharing your hard earned experiences here. Thank you.
your personal anecdote does not compare to the medical evidence that exists.
You are wrong, period.
"Anti-abortion activists claim that having an abortion increases the risk of developing breast cancer and endangers future childbearing. They claim that women who have abortions without complications are more likely to have difficulty conceiving or carrying a pregnancy, develop ectopic pregnancies, which are pregnancies outside of the uterus (commonly in one of the fallopian tubes), deliver stillborn babies, or become sterile. However, these claims have been refuted by a significant body of medical research.
In February 2003, a panel of experts convened by the National Cancer Institute to evaluate the scientific data concluded that studies have clearly established that "induced abortion is not associated with an increase in breast cancer risk."15 Furthermore, comprehensive reviews of the data have concluded that a vacuum aspiration procedure in the first trimester poses virtually no risk to future reproductive health.16"
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/safety_of_abortion.html
Please cite proof for this statement. Thanks!
I clicked through to this article from another news site, and as a young male (25 years of age), allow me to thrown my hat into the ring of this discussion. What's that you say? A MAN... having his own opinion on the topic of abortion?? And it's different from the official opinion of the reigning majority of feminists??? OHHHHHH THE HORROR!!!
Being younger than all of you baby-boomers and flower children, allow men to offer a slighly different take on abortion and sex in modern day society. Over the past decade or so, I've witnessed girls of my generation and the current generation younger than mine become more and more sexually promiscuous. Now, that's all fine and dandy when you are a teenager with raging hormones, but now that I'm getting older, I'm starting to realize just how much damage it's really doing to women and to society as a whole. Girls frequently "hook-up" with guys as opposed to having a normal healthy bf/gf relationship with limits and bounds, and guys haven't a clue as to how to behave towards girls due to the whole "feminization" of our society over the past couple of decades. And don't even get me started on parents these days... good God! What the hell are we teaching our kids these days???
I've noticed that most parents today are either completely clueless or willfully ignorant about the goings on of most teens and adolescent children these days. I can't tell you how many family and other social gatherings I've been to where I've heard kids that were pre-teens and even younger talking about all kinds of sexual activity, explicitly and openly to each other, the way my friends and I would talk about sports or video games back in the day... like it was a completely normal thing and they didn't have a care in the world. And you see more and more stories on the news like kids "sexting" lewd pics and videos to each other, and having improper conduct with teachers and administrators, and again the parents are completely clueless in every situation! They are probably same the ones who thing that abortions are "a blessing" and that "The Vagina Monologues" is perfectly acceptable subject material to be portrayed in high school plays!
Kids these days think that it's ok to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and damn the consequences, because after all, when it comes to having sex, it's your body and having an abortion is your right too! So you're basically telling our young and impressionable minds these days that it's fine for a woman to A: be a slut and sleep around with however many men she wants (hey, it's her body so she can do what she pleases!) and B: be taken advantage of by males because after all, she can always have an abortion either way, so no harm done! What about the emotional (not to mention physical) scars that having an abortion can leave on a woman???
Sorry to ruin your "Abortion Pride Movement" party everyone, but I just thought I'd introduce you to my friend Reality... and boy is she a BITCH!
So you're basically telling our young and impressionable minds these days that it's fine for a woman to A: be a slut and sleep around with however many men she wants
Like men have been able to do since the dawn of time, without being stigmatized as "sluts?" It's telling how you're so incredibly concerned about women being promiscuous, and say nary a word about men.
and B: be taken advantage of by males because after all, she can always have an abortion either way, so no harm done!
Here's a word of advice: SHUT UP. You don't have a damn clue what you're talking about, and you're only making yourself look like a moron.
Why? Because this community has been on the forefront of speaking out against sexual assault, even when most people deny that it happened or play it for laughs. We absolutely hold it not okay for men to take advantage of a woman. We call that rape, we call those men rapists, and we advocate for the woman---who often finds that many of the people that should be supporting her, aren't (e.g. the police).
So you're arguing for being a slut? Really? You think that male or female sluts are ok? Truth is, men and women can take advantage of each other and quite often do without rape. It happens all the time. I've been arguing for gender equality and women's rights for many years. But I've never fought for the right to be a slut or to act like it was ok for men or women. And if you want your point to be heard, you can not call people names or shut them up - Not the way to persuade people to your cause (and I mean the other people who will read your beratement of that young man). You obviously have a passion about something (abortion? women's rights?) but it's being completely missed with your delivery.
So you're arguing for being a slut? Really? You think that male or female sluts are ok?
If someone wants to have sex with a lot of different partners, then as a long as s/he is responsible and honest about it, sure. Some folks have a very high libido, and enough stamina to handle it. I sure don't, but I'm not going to say that everyone has to have a sex life that looks like mine.
Truth is, men and women can take advantage of each other and quite often do without rape. It happens all the time.
Do bear in mind that "rape" covers a lot of things that many people don't think of as rape, like verbal coercion and blackmail. Maybe you're getting at something less egregious, like just being an asshole, but that's a whole 'nuther can of worms.
And if you want your point to be heard, you can not call people names or shut them up - Not the way to persuade people to your cause
I didn't ask you to shut up in furtherance of any cause. I did so because you had put your foot in your mouth, and if you care about your credibility in discussions like this, you'll want to gain a better idea of what you're talking about before you join one again. It's like saying that the pro-choice community wants to force people to have abortions---it immediately flags you as being off in la-la land.
Pay attention - I'm feministreflections and not the 25yo male you blasted. Look up and you'll see the posts by me. I speak from a woman's point of view (my experience) and as a woman who has dealt with inequality for awhile. And I did not say whether I am (now) pro-choice or not. Just to point out to you, that if a person is having tons of sex and gets pregnant, do you really think they are being responsible? And um, again, you presume I don't know what rape is?! Now you appear as if you think you are the only enlightened female in the room. I don't see how you think you have better credibility or experience as a woman over other women. That just seems odd to me that you would say that or self-deluded or just plain arrogant on your part.
Pay attention - I'm feministreflections and not the 25yo male you blasted. Look up and you'll see the posts by me.
Ah, my bad. I thought it would have been clear to anyone else why he needed to close his mouth.
Just to point out to you, that if a person is having tons of sex and gets pregnant, do you really think they are being responsible?
That's not a lot of information to go on. What form of contraception was being used? Was it sabotaged by a partner? And so on. It's no less an indicator of irresponsibility than, say, getting into a car crash is a sign of irresponsibility. Yes, it can happen to you if you screw up, but sometimes it's a big pothole in the road, or some idiot talking on his cell phone.
P.S.: Why does your question focus on the woman? Why didn't you ask, "...is having tons of sex and gets someone pregnant?"
And um, again, you presume I don't know what rape is?! Now you appear as if you think you are the only enlightened female in the room.
With all the patriarchs spouting off in here about women's affirmation their abortion experiences destroying civilization, it's a little hard to keep track of who said what. But yes, I'm sorry, that was meant for Chris in NJ. I'd certainly hope that you (and everyone else) knows what rape is, and knows that the pro-choice community stands firmly against it.
"Like men have been able to do since the dawn of time, without being stigmatized as "sluts?" It's telling how you're so incredibly concerned about women being promiscuous, and say nary a word about men."
Ahhh, the old "They started it!" argument... BRILLIANT!!!
I guess you're perfectly satisfied with the skyrocketing percentage of "out-of-wedlock" births and single parents these days, especially in minority communities. Funny, but I don't seem to remember their being an epidemic of those situations pre-60's feminism movements. Hmmmm...
"Here's a word of advice: SHUT UP!"
And there it is folks... rule #1 in the liberal's guide to arguing... if you can't win an argument, tell your opponent to SHUT UP!
The fact of the matter is that the number of rapes/assaults against women (and in general) have steadily increased over the past 3-4 decades... why? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with a more sexually promiscuous society in general now could it? Especially one that promotes such promiscuity to teens and adolescents, specifically the girls, and promotes the denigration of women in pop culture and entertainment, like Hip-Hop and RnB music for instance... hell look at the situation with Chris Brown and Rhianna! That right there is a microcosm of this generation's youth!!! Where was all the outrage and protests from all of you so-called feminists and womens' rights advocates? I think N.O.W. put out a statement and Oprah said something om her show about it... whoopty friggin' doo! Meanwhile this kinda stuff is going on constantly in our society but nobody can say boo about it because it's not the P.C. thing to do!
Oh yea rape is a new thing blame it on womens few rights,abortion is a new thing blame it on womens few rights, having sex out of wedlock? Oh my, blame it on womens few rights. What turnip truck did you fall out of????
Got to blame it on someone oh dear do not blame men for anything because they are all God and perfect. Yea right.
Are you implying that men are sluts? And who's making who look like a moron?
Not being a woman myself, and therefor not a "gatekeeper of life", I'm not sure what my options are in my current situation. You see, I had this really annoying neighbor. I didn't chose this person, and in fact, I tried really hard to not have an annoying neighbor. But, unfortunately, it came to pass and now I'm left pondering over my decision. I just didn't think I was ready for this. I mean, just one crazy night, I got a little stoned at a party and things got away from me- next thing I know, this "person" is living next door. So, I terminated him. Does anyone have any books, or walls, or websites for people like me? I'm feeling just a smidge guilty about the whole thing and I think hearing about others who went on to relish in the termination of their neighbor(s) might make me feel much better about my decision...
For anyone suffering over choice(s) made in the past, I wholly sympathize and sincerely apologize for the satire. But frankly, this article is the lowest form of self-righteous drivel. She's actually offering "hooray for you" information rather than helpful counseling! Appalling...
why bother, the 'open minded womyn' will just 'try to shut you up.' LOL. The same womyn talked about 'being an Asshole' As she is obviously a subject matter expert ...
The reason you **don't** have pride and joy and peace after your abortion is that somewhere deep in your heart and God-given conscience, you have realized that you have done something despicable, irresponsible, and selfish. If what you did was good and right, you wouldn't have to use rationalization, self-delusion, denial and moral relativism in fruitless attempts to process your poor decision.
If you searched beyond the abortion industry's pathetic attempts to hide the medical and psychological truths about the human cost in the aftermath of abortion, you would discover that you have been manipulated like a pawn in a sick game. If you took the time to search into the actual depraved history of abortion and its bigoted and hateful early proponents, you would be sick.
If you opened your eyes, you would see all kinds of bizarre paradoxes, such as Obama's buddy Reverend Wright's strange support for Roe v Wade, when Margaret Sanger, the demented bigot, viewed abortion as a eugenics solution to rid the world of those she viewed as beneath her: "We do not want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,” said Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. Now the majority of PP clinics are close to minority populations and the equivalent of one third of the current black population has been aborted.
In Asian countries, abortion is routinely used for sex selection, and guess what- female babies are selectively aborted, in such numbers that the M:F ratio is almost 1.1 to one. The same is already happening here. Does this sound like laudable, compassionate, and loving human behavior? Do such actions value human life? Do they value womanhood and motherhood?
Don't be manipulated. There is no "Abortion Pride" to be had, but there is plenty of horror, sadness, depression, suicide, and increased cancer risk.
and they said all that they felt was relief.
"We need to create a world where a woman having an abortion is as respected and supported as a woman having a baby."
That is never going to happen. You may be able to create the illusion of the same kind of support for a woman having a baby, but you will never be able to re-create the joy, affirmation, and love that a woman giving birth signifies. People naturally feel a sense of joy over the birth of a baby that they do not feel in regard to abortion.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Marcy Bloom Celebrates Abortion!
Bravo and five stars for the logical dead end of leftard liberal freakville.
Abortions are FUN! What part do you like best? The blood or the screaming? I already know you DON'T like that they're "rare!" Riiiight. Yeah, of course we need MORE abortions. Millions and millions more! We ALL need dead babies. Day and night. Er, NO.
Ah, the hideous brave new world of inverted nihilist immorality and without limits. The madness of equivalence, parading as an ironically single pushed "choice". Choice means more than one uber-dominating PC paradigm. Yeah, I can see ya really care. Balls.
Thus Margaret Sanger was a racist eugenicist admired by Hitler and was an avid speaker at KKK rallies, and thus a left liberal Democrat heroine! Since 1973 13 million black babies aborted out of a black population of 14 million! And a huge money spinner at $70 million for one clinic chain. [PP clinics etc are often proportionately over-represented in poorer and black areas.]
"I'm proud to have aborted a million babies" said the male owner. If the rest of America had the same rate, that'd be around 280 abortions since 73!
Yes, chopping up live babies that scream and wriggle is "normal? How "right on". How freakishly crazy.
"Exterminate the negro race". Margaret Sanger founder of Planned Parenthood.
margaretsanger blogspot com. But then the Marxist left liberal has ALWAYS been utterly pro-eugenics. Thus ALL left liberal "values" rest on support for the expanding eternal welfare state, abortion and identity politics. It pay$ off in a permanent voter base, eh?
Are you an insane moral vacuum or just merely a perfectly indoctrinated Marxist leftard liberal?
Could your mentality be any more of a pure smiley faced void of Nazi-like indoctrination, fascist and totalitarian control freak rottenness? Your "values" are that you HAVE no values. Your core values are a narcissistic "normalisation" of violent death. Thus you have NOTHING.
You are profoundly, wilfully deluded. You are sickening as you are terrifying. A "respectable" nihilist.
The Death Of The Grown Up by Diana West. Any P.J O'Rourke. [Left] Liberal Fascism Jonah Goldberg. The Case Against Obama by David Fredosso.
How [left] Liberals Think by Evan Sayet.
youtube com [forward slash] watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
zombietime com drsanity blogspot com dissectleft blogspot com bestobamafacts com thepeoplescube com thepeoplescube com roadsassy com dissectleft blogspot com
therealcuba comThe Real Che & the idiots who idolise him by Humberto Fontova drsanityblogspot com che-mart com Radical Son & Unholy Alliance by David Horowitz
colonelrobertneville blogspot com zombietime com jihadwatch org brusselsjournal com thereligionofpeace com
video [dot] google [dot] com [forward slash] videoplay?docid=-6312707119815436839
antiabortionsigns com [forward slash]
Colonel Robert Neville blogspot com
Wierdo conservative right wing "praise the lord" types too ya know.
Another site for post abortion stress syndrome, which does not take a position on abortion itself, is http://www.afterabortion.com/ The site is welcoming to those of both pro choice and pro life perspectives.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Just plain creepy.
Another example of the bad side of Margaret Sanger's mentality is Jocelyn Elders, who said outright that abortion is good because it has decreased the number of people with down syndrome who are born. When I was growing up and going to school, Elders was held up as a female role model. As a disabled person, what was I supposed to think? "Gee, Elders is great. She is just so accepting of everyone. I hope that everyone goes and aborts their disabled fetuses, so that people like me aren't born"?
\
quot;Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
there's nothing to be proud of when murdering a baby. you people make me vomit.
I had an abortion in 1976 when i was 17 years old. Thank God for Roe V Wade. I was never proud of getting pregnant but I have NEVER regretted having an abortion--it probably was the best decision of my life.
I now have a son who is 15 and a daughter who turns 13 this week. I have tried to teach them sex ed--primarily abstinence and birth control and have talked to them about abortion. YOU KNOW???? Comprehensive SEX ED. The schools in PA only teach "Abstinence Only". My kids were taught CONDOMS DON'T WORK. So you tell me... HOW STUPID IS THAT...TO DISCOURAGE KIDS FROM USING PROTECTION... Are we really so confident that "abstinence only" will work. I don't know... My parents generation wasn't abstinent after WWII, My generation wasn't abstinent in the '70s, but MY kids WILL be abstinent now??? And Why"
I grew up with people who were anti-abortion----until it came to "their kid". people are so hypocrytical, its really shocking to me. I wonder how many anti-abortionists who have commented here, would be so vocal if the abortion subject involved one of their own.
thank you for your article.
Being slightly more in touch with your kids' generation than you are (I'm 25), allow me to point a couple things out about Sex Ed. in schools these days...
While I agree that forms of contraception should be taught in health classes in addition to abstinence, one thing that isn't stressed enough unfortunately and that really should be is the ever increasing rise in STDs especially among young people... nearly 1 in 4 people in the NYC metro area alone have some type of STD, and the infection rates of alot of different types are on the rise today, including even the HIV/AIDS virus! Condoms can only go so far, especially these days where teens are more inclined to engage in oral sex, where forms of protection are rarely used for the most part. Just a friendly warning before you send your kids off on their merry way to engaging in "safe" sex. :-)
Have you told your living children of the great pride you have in killing their older sibling? Your abortion was not he best decision for your unborn child. If my child were to become pregnant or get another person's child pregnant, I would offer my grandchild as a sacrifice to the god of convenience, err become Pro-Choice. I would offer my child the support needed to do what's best for their chid which does not include said child's dismemberment.
I would NOT offer my grandchild as a sacrifice to the god of convenience, err become Pro-Choice.
How do you know that if finn would not have had that earlier abortion that she would even have the two children she has today? Pregnancy is not without its complications and circumstances - instead, had she carried to term the earlier pregnancy, there may not be the two children she refers to.
This is without a doubt one of the most specious and atrocious articles I have ever read. If I didn't know better, I would say it was a joke. A sad, horrible, malignant joke.
I was beginning to wonder myself if this wasn't some horrible experiment in measuring society's pulse on the issue. It seemed rather outrageous and inflammatory as if to purposefully generate dialog for some study. Maybe we'll see our comments one day in some publication?
I was beginning to wonder myself if this wasn't some horrible experiment in measuring society's pulse on the issue.
It's only outrageous if you don't have respect for women's agency concerning abortions. Most people have made peace with the fact that abortion is legal, but they still hold on to the idea that the woman should feel ashamed/pained/etc. about it. So when that issue is confronted directly, people foam at the mouth. Even some pro-choicers aren't comfortable with it (the ones who would agree with "abortion is a tragedy"), as this view is somewhat ahead of the mainstream.
I think it's rather sad, that so many people want to apply the teachings of a religion that explicitly prohibits women in the hierarchy, to women. Christianity/Catholicism has always been a religion of men. Women have never been allowed an equal place in it.
How did you read religion from one of MY posts? And maybe you should ask yourself why you get so upset when a pro-choicer actually chooses NOT to have an abortion. Are you pro-choice or just simply pro-abortion? And who are you to decide who should feel shame? Or for what reasons? There are many reasons to have regret for such a serious and life-changing decision without dragging religion into it. Women do need equality and a voice. Gender inequality is still a big issue but butchering our bodies is not a solution. (Reminds me of the hysterectomy butchering to 'cure' a woman when all else fails.) There has to be a better way. We're not talking about having some inconvenient wart removed or some nasty blemish. We are talking about butchering ourselves. How free is that? Equal? And how does that provide equality for the women who decide that's not an option for them? Now you shun them. Just seems like an easy way out to me (ha!) because we haven't found a better way.
I think it's rather sad, that so many people want to apply the teachings of a religion that explicitly prohibits women in the hierarchy, to women. Christianity/Catholicism has always been a religion of men. Women have never been allowed an equal place in it.
Only the naive, or willfully ignorant keep perpetuating this myth concerning Christianity. For while Paul did indeed say he didn't permit women in positions of authority over men, this is taken out of the historic and biblical context of the very fact that many of the "churches" he was setting up were meeting in the homes of--WOMEN. He even thanks several women "fellow laborers" in his epistles. He encourages Timothy to engage older women in teaching positions (over other women of course--as well as children)
But after all, 2000 years later in our so much more civilized time, worldwide, all men now respect and honor females in authority over them right? /sarcasm lol!
The historical and biblical truth is much simpler and truer. Women were involved in Jesus' ministry from the very beginning. Christianity teaches that women might be weaker vessels, but are EQUAL heirs. We do indeed have different roles, but we always have been and always will be equal in the eyes of G*d.
As religions go, Catholicism, with it's strong Pro-Life stance, gets banged about by those who want to promote the so called "Choice" of abortion. They say it's a male dominated religion, and yet, the highest person in humanity (other than Christ - who happens to be God, according to all of Christianity), according to Catholicism, is a woman, the only person who ever lived a sinless life, was a woman. Hmmm, they never do mention that. That this religion that supposedly has a mysogynist bent to it, hold a woman as the most perfect example of mankind.
How is it that they hold Mary in such high regard if they secretly hate women?
Oh yeah, a Jewish boy loves His mom. And, by the way, don't tell anyone, but she was pregnant out of wedlock and her fiance' was none to pleased about it when he first found out.
posted by anonymous: I think it's rather sad, that so many people want to apply the teachings of a religion that explicitly prohibits women in the hierarchy, to women. Christianity/Catholicism has always been a religion of men. Women have never been allowed an equal place in it.------------------------------------------------
You are wrong, you don't understand true Christianity at all. There is FREEDOM in Christ, for male and female.
For the born AND the unborn.
only after you die? How do we even know what happens after we die? Did you see God? curious all these religious people here did not hear a word in church. He who has not sinned cast the first stone? or Only God can judge us not other humans. So why are there so many religious people here casting stones and judging? You are not following what you have been taught in church are you?
The desperate attempt to say "we're not ashamed" simply points to the inescapable fact that, yes, you do feel shame for having ended a life.
By banding together and telling one another, "isn't it great we had abortions?" you may reassure yourselves for a time, but the truth will simmer deep within you for decades and poison your lives.
Your little "hearts" and journals about your feelings are, I think likely, written in the immediate aftermath of the deed and reflect a short term relief from what seemed a difficult position.
I would like to see an honest, long term followup and find out what you feel like ("you" statistically I mean) feel like 10, 20 or more years down the road.
The fetus is alive. Abortion kills it. You might rationalize your decision for a moment, but it will haunt you forever.
I have a friend, now 48, who had an abortion over 20 years ago. For many years she congratulated herself for her decision, and how "freeing" it was, allowing her to pursue her career.
Now she wonders about the grandchildren she will never have. She is alone and will always be.
The desperate attempt to say "we're not ashamed" simply points to the inescapable fact that, yes, you do feel shame for having ended a life.
Um, no... it points to the inescapable fact that there are many people like you, who are all too willing to tell women how they should feel about their abortion, and they have had enough.
These women are saying that they are OK with their decision to have an abortion, and between what they're saying, and what you're saying, I think I'm going to go with them. Because unless you have some telepathic powers I don't know about, I think they know how they feel a lot more accurately than you.
Again, you're not paying attention. There have been many posts on here by women sharing their regret later in life. You are either choosing to ignore them or somehow again feel you alone can represent all women or only you can understand the complex emotions regarding abortion. I find it rather amusing that you actually chided one poster for their religious posting as if they are self-righteous. Ironic.
Again, you're not paying attention. There have been many posts on here by women sharing their regret later in life.
Yes. And there are many, many women who don't regret it. Each woman has an experience, and a story of their own. It's not like there's only one proper way for a woman to feel about her abortion... right?
This makes for a perfect article to add to my new website I made specificly for cataloguing the crap that deranged libtards like Marcy Bloom produced here.
you who have had abortions are nothing but BABY MURDERERS! but i think you "feel" better when you can call it abortion, instead of what it is... you are disgusting people and it is a shame that your parents did not abort you...
Cast your stones all you want you are not GOD!!!
because IT had:
1) no birth certificate
2)no death certificate
3) abortion is legal,as it ends a POTENTIAL life
4)REAL murder of a born named and sanctioned by a birth certificate PERSON is punishable by jail or death in our society
If you are REALLY against abortion, or "murder" as you illogically call it, then why are you hoping someone is aborted just because they might have had what has been deemed a safe, legal, medical procedure? Do you even think of the woman, being one yourself, or the complexities of HER real life that might go into that decision? No, I didn't think so. You are not wrapped very tight, I'm afraid.
All of you who are repulsed by human abortion look at what you are eating- tortured living animals cut apart before they are unconsious,peed on boiled alive, skinned alive, crammed into cages and pens sometimes for years-and- and -and you expect me to care about human life??????? Humans are sick selfish money hungry hate filled beings. I have no sympathy for a clump of human cells. Period. We only have are sick human selves to blame.
God created this planet and all you hpocritical conservative morons are killing it. I guess you get to only pick and choose who you think should be tortured huh???
Soooo... would it be better if we stopped the killing and consumption of animals and started eating aborted babies instead?
I mean hey, why let a perfectly healthy fetus go to waste right???
that we should respect ALL life on this planet including the planet. Otherwise we are hypocrites. Animals are being destroyed the earth is being destroyed,by who? Humans. If we do not respect these things why should we respect anything? Do you see what I mean? If not then we should be silent.
Marcy Bloom misses the point.
The key to having as much unprotected sex as you want...
YES, HYSTERECTOMY PRIDE!
Then you never have to be ashamed.
(Just make sure you keep the ovaries because there ain't anything worse than a dry irritated vaginal epithelium.)
Eeeewwwwwwww!!!! Thanks for leaving me with that mental image tonight lmao!
P.S.
No one is saying, (at least no one in the 99.99 percent of actual pro lifers) that God does not love women who have abortions. Of course God loves them, but that is not the point. God would still love me if I had an abortion, but that wouldn't change the fact that if I had one that took place more than a few hours after implantation, which is nearly impossible, I would be ending the life of a partially developed human being. God would forgive me if I asked Him, but that doesn't make the action itself right.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I’m really taken aback by this whole “abortion pride” attitude. There is no pride in the murdering of innocent life. There is no pride in sexual promiscuity. There is no pride in a selfish, “me first” attitude. There is no pride in not taking responsibility for your actions. Just because a pregnancy is unwanted does not make the baby any less valuable, any less human. Maybe instead of promoting abortion you should be promoting adoption…so many couples who would LOVE to have a baby cannot and so many women who can have babies and are becoming pregnant are basically throwing their babies in the trash. There is no pride in abortion; there is no pride in running away from your problems. There are MANY women who have had abortions who deeply regret their decision, and I believe at some point the majority of women who have had abortions DO regret the decision; for those women, they can find forgiveness in Christ Jesus. You can go ahead and celebrate the degradation and murdering of human life, but judgment day will come, and when it does I pray that God has mercy on your soul.
“Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, 'but we knew nothing about this,' does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?" --Proverbs 24:11&12
I’m really taken aback by this whole “abortion pride” attitude. There is no pride in the murdering of innocent life. There is no pride in sexual promiscuity. There is no pride in a selfish, “me first” attitude. There is no pride in not taking responsibility for your actions. Just because a pregnancy is unwanted does not make the baby any less valuable, any less human. Maybe instead of promoting abortion you should be promoting adoption…so many couples who would LOVE to have a baby cannot and so many women who can have babies and are becoming pregnant are basically throwing their babies in the trash. There is no pride in abortion; there is no pride in running away from your problems. There are MANY women who have had abortions who deeply regret their decision, and I believe at some point the majority of women who have had abortions DO regret the decision; for those women, they can find forgiveness in Christ Jesus. You can go ahead and celebrate the degradation and murdering of human life, but judgment day will come, and when it does I pray that God has mercy on your soul.
“Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, 'but we knew nothing about this,' does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?" --Proverbs 24:11&12
Everyday and only a handfull of loving caring people like me care! What makes you think I should care about the human race?? We are a vile sick race and you think God is going to forgive you?? After what we have done to this planet and all the life on it??? I think not. we are all sinners we have no right to judge anyone else but ourself.
Marcy,
Thanks so much for enlightening me about abortion pride. Two weeks ago, I selectively aborted my third unborn daughter because I live in China and as you know they have a strict 1 child per family policy, and the last 3 pregnancies had unfortunately all resulted in a female fetus. The abortion pride movement has to lobby China to remove their antiquated ban on selective sex abortions. They are infringing on my choice, since it is my body, I am allowed to selectively abort as many female fetuses as I desire, and no Chinese dictator is going to tell me that selective sex abortions are illegal. Especially after reading your article, I feel even more pride in my previous selective sex abortions, because I fear that one of my daughters may turn out like you and I would much rather selectively abort my unborn female daughters, as a fetus, rather then have her grow up and turn out like you, so thanks again for reassuring me about the pride I should have for selectively aborting my 3 female daughters. Keep up the good work!
I would also like to point out that Appel singles out disabled fetuses for these "prideful" abortions, saying that "there is enough suffering in the world without adding babies with Tay Sachs to the mix." I guess Marcy didn't notice this, but that attitude is prejudice, poor and simple, no way around it.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Prejudice? Do you know what Tay Sachs is and what it does?
I would like to heartily second Colleen on this one. I've done a fair amount of work on disability issues and I would never, ever condemn people not wanting to bear children with Tay-Sachs as 'prejudiced.'
Stop comparing human worth to that of animals. It isn't the same thing, and, besides, one can be against abortion and animal killing. Two wrongs don't make a right.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
How do you know? Because you were told this or because you read it somewhere? No, two wrongs do not make a right. I do not have much respect for the human race. There are some very good people who respect ALL LIFE not just human life.You can't have it both ways. Respect all life or be silent!
I understand the guards at Auschwitz were proud too. Pride in evil is as old as mankind.
It is historical FACT that one of the first things Hitler did when he took office was to close the Weimar Republic-sponsored family planning clinics and ban ALL abortions for EVERY German citizen.
Oh, and the current Pope has never repudiated his involvement with the Hitlerjugend.
Yes, Colleen, I do know what Tay Saches is, and while Appel is using that as an example, he is talking about ANY fetus that might "endure significant physical suffering," in life. As I've discussed elsewhere on this blog, the significance or extent of a disability is a subjective judgement. Moreover, he dehumanizes people with Tay Sachs by saying that "there is enough suffering in the world without adding infants with Tay Sachs to the mix," portraying those infants as problems instead of people.
"Well behaved women seldom make history."-Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I've not found you to be particularly accurate when you report on things you've read so lets just deal with Tay Sachs because that was the specific example you used. I completely agree with Appel, the world has enough suffering without forcing women to gestate, give birth to and care for infants who will, within the first 3-6 months of life exhibit muscle weakness, blindness, psychomotor retardation, feeding difficulty, and general paralysis. All of these symptoms increase in severity untill at about 18 months there are convulsions, progressive deafness, blindness, seizures, spasticity, and, ultimately, decerebrate rigidity and death. It's a long, horrible and very painful death. He's not 'dehumanizing' anyone by speaking the truth.
Conversely you're not advocating for anyone, much less Tay Sachs infants and their mothers.
I think I'm going to start up a pet abortion clinic. Anyone that has a pet with an "unwanted" pregnancy can come in and get an abortion for $10. Keep the cost low. The more the better. Especially among the poor.
Can you imagine the riots in front of my establishment?!! These same women that talk about the pride of having an abortion would literally scream bloody murder at the death of so many cute little cats and dogs.
If only they cared about human life as much.
You only care about respecting human life and not ALL life including the planet am I right? If so then be silent or change your destructive ways.
So nobody has the right to tell you what to do with your body, right? So you can do anything you want, pure hedonism.
Has anyone ever suggested to you that you might actually have responsibilities? And perhaps these responsibilities even supersede your own desires to have fun, be popular, or earn lots of money?
Ladies, when you become pregnant, you don't have a lifeless tumor growing in you which can be excised on a whim. It is a life...your own child. And you have a responsibility to that life. Not because I said so. Because that is your moral obligation.
Whether you are religious or not, you have to believe in some principles. Remember, if you believe in nothing, you can believe anything!
Who are you to say? You are just a human. Only ONE form of life on this planet. I suppose you believe in God? Do you know what you are eating or about what you are eating? It has been tortured and dismembered alive. By humans! How lovely. I will listen to you when you listen to me ok?
If you are reading this having had an abortion, know that God loves you and forgives. Seek Him and you will find His compassion and mercy. He will accept you just as you are, and will help you through the healing process.
If you really believe the viewpoint of the article above, please look at your children. If you don't have children, imagine the child you love the most: a niece or nephew, or a cousin. If that doesn't work, imagine your siblings, a best friends, or a significant other.
Turn to that person and imagine someone had said, "You're not really convenient to me right now. It's the wrong time. So, sorry, you have to go."
Not a lifeless, meaningless clump of cells. Your boyfriend or girlfriend. Your children. Your sister or brother. Your best friend.
YOU.
Find help. Carry the pregnancy to term and put the child up for adoption, if you need to. You'll be doubly blessing life: you'll bless the baby by allowing the child to live, and you'll bless a family waiting for a baby.
A human being is either human from cell number or they are not. If not, anything that a governmental entity wants to do to people or groups of people can be done at any point in the life cycle for the good of society as a whole of course. Personal liberty will be utterly destroyed. Therefore abortion is pure evil. It is no less evil than anything Hitler, Stalin. Mao, Castro or Chavez have done.
Even Barry Soetorro belongs in this group.
