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At Tonight's Address, What Obama Should Say About Abortion

By Aspen Baker, Exhale

February 24, 2009 - 8:00am

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In Sunday's issue of the New York Times, William Saletan confirms that "President Obama wants to end the culture wars" and reminds us that his "joint address to Congress this week could be an opportunity to change that debate."  I couldn't agree more.  

But, I disagree with Saletan about what President Obama should say.  Saletan argues that Obama should defuse the culture war by telling pro-choice pragmatists to get a sense of morals and telling pro-life moralists to get realistic.  I think that President Obama should acknowledge the unique and legitimate moral and emotional experiences of women who have had abortions - instead of focusing on the opinions and convictions of those who haven't stopped to listen. 

In his Address, President Obama is expected to emphasize the many challenges facing our nation and the world, and lay out his vision for how to move forward.  The economy - the loss of jobs, homes, credit and effective regulation - and the need to improve health care for American families will undoubtedly be at the top of his agenda, and bipartisan strategies will most likely be the overarching theme of his speech.  It is in this very spirit of bipartisanship that President Obama should address one of the most divisive issues of our times: abortion. 

In a speech of this magnitude, a speech that the whole world will watch, all it takes is one sentence to change the course of world events.  In one sentence, President Obama can reframe the whole debate and finally address abortion as a matter of the heart.  With just a few words, the President can convey his support and his respect for each member of his audience who has personally experienced abortion.  He can - and he should - show that he cares.  A post-partisan world needs a message that will speak to women post-abortion.

In our election-season campaign, Pro-Voice in '08, Exhale and RH Reality Check asked women who have had abortions what they wanted to hear from the next President when he gave his first State of the Union speech.  Today, we publish their voices and ask President Obama to speak directly to us - the millions of American women, and our loved ones, who have personally experienced abortion - in his first Presidential Address.   

Here is what we would like to hear:

"I know it was really hard for you and you were very unhappy for a while afterwards, and I also know that you did the right thing, because nobody else knows what you need as well as you do." 

"I can only imagine how difficult a position you must have been in, and I respect and honor the thought and care that you used in making your decision." 

"I believe that you were thoughtful and compassionate as you considered the heart-wrenching, life-altering and soul-splintering place that you were in regarding the potential for life within you. I respect your choice and the strength required to choose, and the courage to live, truly live alongside your choice each day." 

"I'm sorry you were in such a difficult time in your life, and I will do my best to protect other women who face similar issues." 

"I know it was not an easy choice, but I trust you with the choice you made. And I respect your right to make the choice." 

"I trust that you have made the most responsible, intelligent and moral decision for yourself and your family." 

Are you a woman who has had an abortion and know what you'd like to hear from President Obama?  How can he convey - in one sentence - support and respect for your unique experience?  Add your voice and be a part of creating a pro-voice dialogue by contributing a comment or uploading your own video here.

Watch videos women have already uploaded:


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141 comments
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Addressing the People Who Suffer from Abortions?

Well, he'd only be talking to half of the people at best - the other half are dead... common sense...

Submitted by Mike Shivar on February 24, 2009 - 9:48am.
Ain't that the truth. I

Ain't that the truth.
I recently came across a quote from Ronald Reagan:

"I have noticed that everyone in favor of abortion has been born"

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Submitted by Lisa on February 24, 2009 - 8:35pm.
PRO-CHOICE

he may be comforting the women that had the abortions, but what about the babies that had to feel the physical pain of it...

Submitted by Anonymous on February 24, 2009 - 12:15pm.
Oh goodness
Great post, Aspen.  I know it pains some commenters here to be reminded that women are  humans who make choices for good reasons, but the suggestion for Obama is great.  As for you guys, what next?  Asking Obama to speak about how much it pains sperm to die in a Kleenex instead of a uterus?
Submitted by Amanda Marcotte, RH Reality Check on February 24, 2009 - 12:39pm.
It would be helpful if you

It would be helpful if you would state what is actually occurring rather that gloss over it with that idiotic word "choice". It would read like this:
..."I know it pains some commenters here to be reminded that women are humans who decide to kill their babies for good reasons..."
I am saying this as a woman who had three abortions when I was young, scared, and with no true understanding of what I was doing. I regret killing my babies. I WISH there had been a law to save myself and those little human lives from my own stupidity and I wish there had been SOMEONE pulling for me to be a mother to my babies instead of killing them.
I pray this nation and the world WAKES UP about this senseless, barbaric baby killing that has been going on for far too long. Your remark about sperm is brilliant also. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Submitted by Lisa on February 24, 2009 - 8:01pm.
Please contribute

Hi Lisa,

 

As a woman who has had abortions you are invited to join in this campaign.  If President Obama could say one sentence tonight that would make you feel seen and heard for the experience you are describing above - what would that sentence be? What would you like to hear? I hope you will contribute.

 

Submitted by Aspen Baker, Exhale on February 24, 2009 - 9:02pm.
I will pray for his

I will pray for his conversion, Aspen. I think you could sum up yourself from my comments what I wish he would say! He won't say it--not now. He and the other liberals in Washington currently are chomping at the bit to kill as many pre-born children as they can.

Thanks for the invitation, but I am not like the post-abortive women here, I suspect. I came here off a link from Jill Staneck. I regret my abortions. I wish not another woman would choose it for herself and the unborn human baby she carries.

Abortion is satan's PRIZE on this earth.

Submitted by Lisa on February 25, 2009 - 2:05pm.
Thanks Lisa

Thanks for responding Lisa.  One of the first things I noticed after my own abortion was that there seemed to be two groups of women who have had abortions - pro-life women who regret it, and pro-choice women who don't - and that somehow these groups saw each other as the enemy.  This hurts my heart, deeply.  What I really want is for us to listen and learn from each other.  You may not be like the other women here, and you do share something in common with them. And there are many others here who may have more in common with you than you know, but who aren't public with their story. Judgment and blaming are big parts of why women will chose to keep their story to themselves.  That is why listening and understanding is so important.  

 

Regret is real and hard and can stay in your life for many, many years.  I also believe that healing is possible and I have heard from many women, as I'm guessing you have as well, who have found peace and a way to reconcile their pain. I want that for every woman like you.

 

My pro-voice work with Exhale is about creating support and respect for women like you, and others who have had abortions, across the range of experiences, values and beliefs.  What we have in common is the need to be seen and heard.   

Submitted by Aspen Baker, Exhale on February 26, 2009 - 3:13pm.
Aspen, I have attended

Aspen,
I have attended Rachel's Vineyard and that began my healing process. I do not know if one can ever be fully "healed" from abortion, but I have fully faced my abortions and am continuing the healing journey through activism and speaking out. I am part of the Silent No More Awareness campaign. I will ALWAYS regret my abortions, I do not see how I could ever NOT regret taking human life. It isn't something you can just one day not regret having done. That doesn't mean I will not have joy in my life, it just means I will always regret taking another human life. I have to say, my own belief about pro-abortion women who have had abortions is that they do not want to face the reality of what they have done. To do so is for your world to come crashing down on you with the realization that you have killed a human person in the safest place that would be known to them. Period. Now, I understand what it is like to be in that place very well. It is a 'safe' place, where you tell yourself you were a victim of your circumstances and oh thank God I had the choice. Like I said in another response- this debate is all about how you choose to look at it. The problem with that is IT DOESN'T MATTER whether or not you choose to deny it, that beating heart is a life, and before that it was still simply growing into that beating heart.
Science has proven it no matter how much people choose to deny it.
Like I said, say, "Women deserve the choice to kill their unborn child" and
"I am glad I had the choice to murder my child in my womb so I could finish college" or
"I am relieved that I have the option to murder my fetus so I do not have to deliver a baby I cannot afford"

When abortion is not candy coated and glossed over, it sounds different, doesn't it?

Submitted by Lisa on February 28, 2009 - 7:50pm.
Thanks again Lisa

Many callers to Exhale's talkline have also attended retreats with Rachels Vineyard and have benefitted from that experience.  I agree with you, regret and healing can be lifelong journey's, and its never about arriving at a static place in time, as in today, "I am healed."   I am glad to hear that you can relate to other women's experiences, having been there yourself, but I think we disagree about one thing, and that is what it means to truly understand others, and have empathy for them.  I believe you when you tell me you regret your abortion and I believe women when they say they did their best.  I believe that what women say is true for them (even if I may disagree with it or not like it).  I want to be believed, I want you to be believed, and I want every other woman to be believed. For me, this isn't about glossing over the reality of what abortion is, it is about understanding each person who experienced one.  If there is to be any change on this issue, this is where I believe it will come from, not from attacking or judging each other. Thanks for the dialogue, Lisa, I appreciate it. 

Submitted by Aspen Baker, Exhale on February 28, 2009 - 8:24pm.
Aspen, What do you mean by

Aspen,
What do you mean by 'change on this issue'? Are you saying that you would like to see abortion unavailable, or against the law, or reduced, or still a choice to be had for whoever wants it for all time? Do you want women to know that it is not a good choice, or is a good choice, just for them to decide?
I will never attack a woman because she aborted, or wants to abort. Speaking the truth is not attacking, but, it can FEEL like an attack if you are in denial about what the REAL issue is, no?
An abortion is: The purposeful killing of a human life at a point where that life has absolutely no power to stop the killing of it, in the safest place that it will ever find on this earth, it's mothers womb.
Do you agree with this statement?
It is a true statement, yet the wording of it is what will make women feel attacked. The word 'killing'.
I will never ever be able to both regret my own killing of my unborn children, and at the same time pat another post-abortive woman on the back to comfort her in her denial of what has happened. That hinders a TRUE healing journey. I do not agree that healing of a symptom rather than the real issue is of any benefit to anyone, for any reason. The woman also deserves to MOURN that baby, mourn the loss of her baby whom she will never hold in her arms, never provide comfort for. It takes pure honesty to be able to do that.
My hope is that not another woman would choose abortion for any reason because it ends the life of the unborn, and it also takes a large chunk of the mother's life as she spends the rest of her life contemplating the abortion.
I thank you too, Aspen for this forum for women to discuss this! It is so important for all ideas to be heard and shared without being filtered. Thank you so much!

Submitted by Lisa on March 1, 2009 - 10:24am.
Keeping it going!

Hi Lisa,

 

This might be the longest online discussion I've had with any one person.  We got a marathon session going here.  

 

In our back and forth I was reminded about the way personal experiences with abortion get stereotyped and understood.  There is this idea that women who don't regret their abortions are somehow "in denial" of the truth or their personal pain, while women like you who do regret their abortions and have found healing and forgiveness from God are somehow "brainwashed" or "manipulated" by others.  Which stereotype you believe depends upon which side of the political issue you find yourself on. 

 

I don't believe either.   I don't believe that you are brainwashed or manipulated - I believe you speak your truth.  I give that same level of credit and belief to women who say their decision was best - I believe they speak their truth.  I don't think they are in denial.

 

When I talk about bringing change on the issue, this is what I mean. I want to transform this conflict, a conflict that pits women with a shared experience against each other and stereotypes (in one way or the other) all women who have had abortions.  This is personal and hurtful and we can do better. We should listen to each other.

 

I will be posting my second article in my series "peace for the abortion war" within the next week.  I write much more directly about what I mean when I talk about change.  I hope you come back and read it.  I hope you comment too!

Submitted by Aspen Baker, Exhale on March 1, 2009 - 10:48pm.
Aspen, do you agree with

Aspen, do you agree with the statement I made on what abortion is in my last comment? Please respond.

And, is there "a truth" in addition to "your truth" and "my truth" ?

Submitted by Lisa on March 2, 2009 - 4:19pm.
Aspen, you are a coward!

Answer Lisa's question. You want to feed off of other's emotions you narcissistic baby killer, or have an actual dialogue. Look at the women you are surrounding yourself with - they are walking corpses. This is what you are becoming... You'd better listen to Lisa!

...And Lisa - great work. It is nice to see His Light in your confession and words of advice and wisdom to the lost souls on this website. I know it must be hard for you everyday, but He loves you and so do your children - ALL of them.

You people could learn a lot from Lisa's courageousness.

Submitted by Truth Returns on March 8, 2009 - 10:09pm.
thank-you!

You people could learn a lot from Lisa's courageousness.

If you mean her courage in sharing her personal life experience, I applaud it... and every other woman on this website (including the video messages from Exhales youtube page.)  Any woman who is willing to put her life into this discussion, is being courageous and deserves respect.  We all need to be heard and respected equally, no matter what our story.  Hey Truth, thanks for reminding us how important the life experiences of all of these women are and how blessed we are for having heard them.

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on March 9, 2009 - 8:45am.
WHOA!

Put the flame thrower down and back away - slowly.  It's obvious you are a real hothead, I used to be like that until my opinions evolved. Calling Aspen a name like that (or referring to those other women as "walking corpses") is disrespectlul and really quite tacky. 

If by courageous, you mean Lisa's sharing her story, then I completely agree.Women who've gotten abortions have been maligned so thoroughly, it takes guts to step up and speak out.  But if you mean her immature rants are "courageous", then someone has complete mental disconnect.

 

Your grievance shall be avenged.

Submitted by otaku1960 on March 9, 2009 - 10:59am.
Grow UP, Lisa...

A fetus is not a baby, a baby is fully developed and doesn't need a woman's body for support. A fetus cannot breathe on it's own, nor does a fetus have a SS card and is NOT recognized by the government. A baby should be loved and wanted, not hated and resented and go to bed hungry with it's little tummy grumbling because some doofus like YOU thinks t6hat death is the worst possible thing that could happen to a fetus. Not existing is better than existing in horribly poor and unloved circumstances. What are you suggesting, that abortion be made illegal? There will STILL be abortion, only the woman will die. Is that what YOU want? Do you think about the woman at ALL? Do you realize that if abortion was made illegal, rich women could still travel to any one of the majority of countries that it is legal in and get one, while poor women would have to risk their lives and possibly DIE to get one? Are you living in Disneyland? Do you even TRY to understand WHY a woman would get an abortion in the first place? I thought not.

Submitted by Jan on February 25, 2009 - 9:46am.
1. I have had THREE

1. I have had THREE abortions, so that qualifies me as having to "TRY to understand WHY a woman would get an abortion in the first place"

2. A female child/young woman/woman who is pregnant with a FETUS/BABY can give the FETUS/BABY up for adoption if she feels that the FETUS/BABY is unwanted by herself. No need to kill the FETUS/BABY.

3. If abortion had been illegal when I had my unwanted pregnancies, then I, being a law abiding citizen above all else, would have NOT had an abortion but would have suffered through the SHAME of a growing belly which showed that I was having SEX while unmarried. If other women want to take the chance of harming or killing themselves to procure an illegal abortion, then that would be their choice, I guess. The law would be the law, just like any other circumstance, such as driving while intoxicated. the outcomes can both result in death, right?

4. FETUS/BABY would never have to die at all if people who did not want children would STOP HAVING SEX. Wouldn't it just be so much NICER if a CLUMP OF CELLS/EMBRYO/FETUS/BABY didn't have to die?

5. I LOVE the fact that you are showing how the FETUS/BABY would not be "recognized by the government", yet the whole pro-abortion argument is based on the fact that you want government to have no control in your choices about your body. I hope you can see the humor in your words also.

6. MANY more things I can say about this because the pro-abortion argument is extremely flimsy, I will end this one here-you can read some of my other responses here.

Submitted by Lisa on February 25, 2009 - 12:54pm.
"The only moral abortion is my own."

1. I have had THREE abortions, so that qualifies me as having to "TRY to understand WHY a woman would get an abortion in the first place"

Yet you're not willing to extend to other women the same choice (and confidence in one's ability to make the choice) that you had.

2. A female child/young woman/woman who is pregnant with a FETUS/BABY can give the FETUS/BABY up for adoption if she feels that the FETUS/BABY is unwanted by herself. No need to kill the FETUS/BABY.

That's assuming, of course, that the whole pregnancy/labor/birthing process is easy, painless, and free of potential emotional/financial/medical risks (up to and including death). If you are not a doctor, nor intimately aware of a woman's circumstances, then you are not in a position to say what is "needed" or not.

3. If abortion had been illegal when I had my unwanted pregnancies, then I, being a law abiding citizen above all else, would have NOT had an abortion but would have suffered through the SHAME of a growing belly which showed that I was having SEX while unmarried.

It's easy to say that you would brave the shame and stigmatization that would come with an out-of-wedlock pregnancy in your community. The reality of being in a situation like that, however, can be horrific. You cannot imagine the stress, the anxiety, the repercussions that it would have on you and your social network. Women have undergone unsafe, illegal abortion procedures because they decided that the very real risk of death is better than what they would have had to live through otherwise. Think about that.

If other women want to take the chance of harming or killing themselves to procure an illegal abortion, then that would be their choice, I guess. The law would be the law, just like any other circumstance, such as driving while intoxicated. the outcomes can both result in death, right?

So what you're saying is, you don't give a damn about women dying.

4. FETUS/BABY would never have to die at all if people who did not want children would STOP HAVING SEX.

The fact that you want people to stop having healthy, fulfilling sexual relationships says volumes about you.

Wouldn't it just be so much NICER if a CLUMP OF CELLS/EMBRYO/FETUS/BABY didn't have to die?

Sure it would. That doesn't mean that carrying it to term would be nicer than it dying, however. If you're getting an abortion, you've already decided that that is the least not-nice outcome. (The nicest outcome, of course, would be never to have become pregnant in the first place.)

5. I LOVE the fact that you are showing how the FETUS/BABY would not be "recognized by the government", yet the whole pro-abortion argument is based on the fact that you want government to have no control in your choices about your body. I hope you can see the humor in your words also.

Why is there a contradiction there, let alone humor? If the government were to recognize the fetus as a legal person-entity, then obviously that's going to affect the choices available to the woman carrying that fetus.

6. MANY more things I can say about this because the pro-abortion argument is extremely flimsy, I will end this one here-you can read some of my other responses here.

You've stated that you don't care whether women die as a result of an abortion ban. Your argument is strong only because you believe that this is an acceptable premise.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 25, 2009 - 2:21pm.
1. I don't want to extend

1. I don't want to extend women the same choice, because I know what living with that choice is like-and I don't wish it on anyone. It is painful to live with the reality that I let someone kill my babies for me while they were still in my womb.
2. Listen-we all know that there can be risks to carrying a child to term, and it is damn painful to give birth. These are just really dumb reasons to give as a reason to abort a baby. Getting and staying pregnant naturally is the most natural and least risky of all options. I know you pro-aborts don't like to hear this, but- our bodies were DESIGNED BY OUR CREATOR to carry babies(GASP!!)
3. That IS what I am saying: I felt it was better to kill my children than to live with the stigma of an out of wedlock belly and baby!!! I GET THAT! Now that I am older and wiser, I can see that It was plain ignorant for me to KILL A HUMAN based on what other people might think of me. SHAMEFUL! The fact that other women out there may choose abortion for that same reason I did and later REALIZE what a grave mistake they made-That is why I condemn the practice of abortion. I know what it is like to live with that sheer and utter pain of having killed my own children. Surely-SURELY- the pain of stigma and childbirth was the least painful thing to do.

You are accusing me of not giving a damn about women, and that is not true. I love women, I am a woman. I am showing the love in a different way than a pro-abort is: by encouraging LIFE, for the woman and the baby. By encouraging the mother to do what she is built to do-grow a baby in her womb, with the nourishment of the placenta by which she supplies food and nutrients to her baby. Then, she can give birth to her child and hold him/her lovingly in her arms. If she doesn't want the baby, FINE! So many parents unable to conceive would be willing to love that child. SO MANY!

I have experienced aborting 3 babies, and birthing 3 babies.

The abortions all brought physical pain, emotional pain, trauma, heartache and regret. Not to mention the pain the babies felt.

The births brought physical pain, emotional joy, hope, love, a loving bond between myself and my babies, and a feeling in me that I can care for them and nurture them to adulthood-what a feeling of power! Of purpose!

Why would I recommend abortion between these two options if my experience from abortion was all pain, and my experience with birth was a physical pain that goes away AMAZINGLY fast once your baby is in your arms, then all joy from that point-isn't this a no-brainer?

The whole debate is in how you look at things. Right?

I do care if women die as part of an abortion ban-but, I care about the unborn who has no choice at all MORE. Someone can speak for the woman, or she can speak for herself. The unborn CANNOT speak for themselves. That is why WE must. Let me ask you-do YOU enjoy your life? Are YOU glad your mom chose life? Are YOU happy to be here, despite the hardships of life? Are you glad you were not aborted?

I do not want to deny people loving sexual relationships. People have to WAKE UP and realize that these loving sexual relationships can bear fruit. They must be willing to bear the fruit! How selfish to take the pleasure but not the full responsibility of it. Surely you can agree that we can't just go around producing babies to kill in the context of a loving sexual relationship-does that even sound right? You do have the option of not getting pregnant in the first place-don't have sex if you are not willing to get pregnant! Nobody gets hurt at all that way. So simple, yet people try to make it so complicated.

There may not ever be a law- and ya' know, people break laws anyway-FINE- so I say to women who are abortion minded:
get facts from abortion providers and women who have had abortions. Seek advice from clergy, doctors, counselors and many sources. Go to a crisis pregnancy center and ask questions. Get an ultrasound of that thing growing inside you-watch the heart beat. Then, listen to your heart.

To you women here who are still not awake- I will continue to pray for you, because when you finally admit to yourself what you have done, you will need your sisters to be praying for you. When you are ready to face it, you will need healing. I highly recommend Rachel's Vineyard dot org.
I went on a weekend retreat with Rachel's Vineyard and found love and forgiveness in Jesus Christ. I mourned my aborted babies. I cried rivers of tears that I did not know needed to be cried.

I thank your group for allowing these discussions to take place, I would love to keep debating but-I have to go take care of my girls :) Love and peace to you all.

Submitted by Lisa on February 25, 2009 - 4:31pm.
"I don't want to extend

"I don't want to extend women the same choice, because I know what
living with that choice is like-and I don't wish it on anyone."

 

This isn't true. What you know is your experiences, not the experiences of all or even most women. In other words, your experiences are no more universal than your religious beliefs.

Submitted by colleen on February 25, 2009 - 5:35pm.
The outcome of driving,

The outcome of driving, even if not intoxicated, can be death or other injury.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 7, 2009 - 3:32pm.
Very

true.

Submitted by Lisa on March 7, 2009 - 5:50pm.
why oh why

 do anti-abortion people believe pro choicers don't know what abortion is?  We know very well what abortion is and what it does. Apparantly you believe other women are too stupid to know what they are doing, and that is really insulting. Bans on abortion don't "protect" women, they do just the opposite by forcing women to resort to "underground" abortions or attempt self abortions.  One last thing, re-writing someone else's comment to twist meanings is really tacky.

 

Your grievance shall be avenged.

Submitted by otaku1960 on March 3, 2009 - 12:47pm.
otaku1960, which comment

otaku1960, which comment was re-written? Which comment and by whom are you referring?

Submitted by Lisa on March 3, 2009 - 2:13pm.
you've been a bad girl,Lisa

Amanda Marcotte said: [quote]I know it pains some commenters here to be reminded that women are  humans who make choices for good reasons,[unquote]

You rewrote the first part and then added:[quote]"who decide to kill their babies for good reasons."[unquote]

 That is what I mean by "twisting", you put your personal interpretation into Amanda's mouth. That is what I mean by "tacky".

Your grievance shall be avenged.

Submitted by otaku1960 on March 4, 2009 - 5:50pm.
I know, I intentionally did

I know, I intentionally did that because that is what "choice" means. The true words that should be used sound awful, and so pro-aborts use the word "choice" to make it sound purty, and clean, and sweet and nice. To make something that is bad sound good. That is why I think the pro-abort argument is based in denial and avoidance of the truth: they won't use the correct words to accurately describe what is occurring.

Submitted by Lisa on March 4, 2009 - 6:27pm.
Horse pucky!

I call horse pucky on you,Lisa!  You don't have the right to redefine words to suit your agenda. What you did was dishonest and tacky. We pro - choicers call it "choice" because it is ACCURATE.  We (meaning other pro choicers and myself) aren't afraid to use accurate words, you just like to repeat that lame accusation again and again. The only explanation for your immature behavior is you lack a coherent anti-abortion argument. Why else would you sound like a broken record? 

 

Your grievance shall be avenged.

Submitted by otaku1960 on March 7, 2009 - 9:35pm.
Obama and abortion

I don't see how the word bipartisan can be used so loosely in this context. If Obama was bipartisan on the subject of abortion, he would not be poised to invoke FOCA, which will strip all control on abortion. I know he doesn't want his daughter to be "punished with a baby for making a mistake" but if she, as a minor, went without his knowledge to a clinic that left her pemanently maimed or even dead (yes it happens in the US but you won't hear about it on the nightly news) would he hold the abortionist responsible or say, well it was her choice and her right? My kids can't even take Tylenol at school without my permission. Why in the world would this country, this president, take away the right to protect their minor child in such a serious manner? For those children who are being abused, pregnant at the hand of a father or close family member, authorities should be called in.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 24, 2009 - 2:56pm.
Protection is not 100% control

I know he doesn't want his daughter to be "punished with a baby for making a mistake" but if she, as a minor, went without his knowledge to a clinic ...

Obama has a very loving, supportive relationship with his daughters. If one of them were in a position to need the services of an abortion clinic, why in God's name would she not discuss it with her parents?

Why in the world would this country, this president, take away the right to protect their minor child in such a serious manner?

Allowing abortion without parental consent/notification does not take away that right or obligation. It does, however, negate the right to fully control one aspect of the child's life. Your next sentence acknowledges why this is a practical necessity.

For those children who are being abused, pregnant at the hand of a father or close family member, authorities should be called in.

How nice of you to declare that that is the best course of action in all such possible circumstances. I'll bet your advice to all battered women is "Just leave him!" too.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 24, 2009 - 3:42pm.
1) How do you know

1) How do you know President Obama has a loving, supportive relationship with his daughters?

2) Are you insinuating that only young women who do not have loving, supportive realationships with heir parents are getting abortions behind their parent's backs?

3) Even if a minor was sexually abused and became pregnant, doesn't she deserve the counsel of the very people who are responsible for her, and why in the name of God do people think that just because a child was conceived by rape or incest that somehow it is a dirty, lowdown baby that does not deseve a shot at life like all of us? Do you for one minute believe that there are not any products of rape or incest walking the face of the earth with us? Have you asked? Or do you just assume that they must be the people locked up in prison....WAKE UP PEOPLE! COME ON! Why do YOU deserve to live and decide who dies?! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? WAKE UP!

Submitted by Lisa on February 24, 2009 - 8:27pm.
Open your eyes

1) How do you know President Obama has a loving, supportive relationship with his daughters?

I'm not blind. Have you seen them?

2) Are you insinuating that only young women who do not have loving, supportive realationships with heir parents are getting abortions behind their parent's backs?

If the relationship were in good order, why would a young woman not talk to her parents about a new and scary experience in her life?

And "going behind her parents' backs" is not the same thing as "going alone, without anyone to help her." She could just as well go to a supportive aunt, or other trusted relation.

The reason why you don't want parental notification laws is because when notification is a good thing, it doesn't need to be legally mandated. (The reason why nobody is pushing a parental-or-aunt-or-whoever notification is because the legal system is terrible at negotiating a young woman's social network like that.)

Ultimately, it comes down to putting trust in the young woman herself---that she is the person most qualified to determine who she will confer with prior to getting an abortion (or whatever she decides to do).

3) Even if a minor was sexually abused and became pregnant, doesn't she deserve the counsel of the very people who are responsible for her,

You mean, the same people who abused her, in the case of incest?

and why in the name of God do people think that just because a child was conceived by rape or incest that somehow it is a dirty, lowdown baby that does not deseve a shot at life like all of us? Do you for one minute believe that there are not any products of rape or incest walking the face of the earth with us? Have you asked? Or do you just assume that they must be the people locked up in prison....WAKE UP PEOPLE! COME ON! Why do YOU deserve to live and decide who dies?! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? WAKE UP!

Okay. The next time a woman is sexually abused and becomes pregnant as a result, we'll have you look into her eyes, and tell her that she will have to carry her abuser's child to term. Whether she wants to or not.

Who do you think you are, indeed?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 24, 2009 - 10:43pm.
1. Just because people in

1. Just because people in the public eye always look happy, marvelous, loving, etc. in front of cameras does not mean that is truly how things are behind closed doors. It is as true for regular people as it is for the famous.
2. Just because a child has a good relationship with their parents does not mean that they would feel as though they could say, "Ok.I had sex, I am pregnant, and I don't know what to do. Help me". Think about it-wouldn't a spontaneous pregnancy be the very thing that could potentially destroy a "great relationship" between a child and their parents? That happens everyday, and it many times is those very same parents who take the girl kicking and screaming to the abortion clinic so the parents won't be shamed, even if the girl says she wants to keep her baby. EVERYDAY that happens. Go sit in a crisis pregnancy center for a day and just observe. Pro-aborts may change their minds rather quickly if they did that one thing alone!
3. I get what you are saying-if the parents were sexually abusing the girl and dady got her pregnant, you are right- maybe instead of talking to either one of them about it, maybe she should run to DSS and have the daddy removed from the home. That is actually a better suggestion. HOWEVER- pro-aborts don't like that answer, do they? They just want the girl to be able to kill the pregnancy, after all, it's a 'dirty' conception. Right? Wrong....
4. I would GLADLY sit down with ANY abortion minded woman/child, for ANY reason- in this case, rape or incest. This is what I would say to her (Short version):
...What an awful experience it must have been to be raped. It has never happened to me, so I can only imagine the pain you are feeling. But I have had an abortion. At first, I felt relief, because I thought my problem was over. I thought I would be able to forget it ever happened and go on living my life the way I wanted. But, I would have recurring flashbackes about the procedure, and I would immediately will myself to forget it. I kept feeling a great sense of loss, guilt, and sadness but I could not put my finger on it. I spoke of the abortion and my feelings about it to no one. I became promiscuous, began abusing drugs and alcohol, and have had thoughts of suicide many times. I went on to have two more abortions in a 3-4 year time span. My life was in a shambles for a very long time.
It has taken me many years to realize the connection between my abortions and my problems. I supressed the memories of my abortions so much, that I cannot even tell you what exact day they occurred, and I am not completely sure of the year on the last two. I know that carrying the child growing within you will be very difficult- BUT- if you give that child a CHANCE to live- with adoptive parents who will LOVE that child no matter what- won't that, in some way, give you POWER over what that man did to make you POWERLESS, through rape? I live everyday with the knowledge that I KILLED MY CHILDREN IN MY WOMB. I deeply regret my abortions. My hope for you is that you stay STRONG and CHOOSE LIFE-not only for that baby, but for yourself. WHEN WE KILL, WE TOO ARE KILLED IN SOME WAY.
....short version....

Submitted by Lisa on February 25, 2009 - 1:43pm.
Burden of proof

1. Just because people in the public eye always look happy, marvelous, loving, etc. in front of cameras does not mean that is truly how things are behind closed doors. It is as true for regular people as it is for the famous.

Oh, of course. But there's a lot of evidence to indicate that the relationship is healthy and loving, and not a whole lot to show otherwise. The burden of proof is on anyone suggesting that the Obama family is dysfunctional.

2. Just because a child has a good relationship with their parents does not mean that they would feel as though they could say, "Ok.I had sex, I am pregnant, and I don't know what to do. Help me". Think about it-wouldn't a spontaneous pregnancy be the very thing that could potentially destroy a "great relationship" between a child and their parents?

Only if it weren't such a "great relationship" to begin with. You don't think parents mentally prepare themselves, to some extent, for their daughter coming home one day and saying, "I'm pregnant?" That otherwise loving parents would know how to respond to that in a similarly loving way?

That happens everyday, and it many times is those very same parents who take the girl kicking and screaming to the abortion clinic so the parents won't be shamed, even if the girl says she wants to keep her baby. EVERYDAY that happens. Go sit in a crisis pregnancy center for a day and just observe. Pro-aborts may change their minds rather quickly if they did that one thing alone!

Er... I thought you were arguing in favor of the parents knowing what was best for their daughter.

3. I get what you are saying-if the parents were sexually abusing the girl and dady got her pregnant, you are right- maybe instead of talking to either one of them about it, maybe she should run to DSS and have the daddy removed from the home. That is actually a better suggestion.

Yes, but again, that's like telling a battered wife to "just leave him!" Real life is rarely that simple.

HOWEVER- pro-aborts don't like that answer, do they? They just want the girl to be able to kill the pregnancy, after all, it's a 'dirty' conception. Right? Wrong....

A "pro-abort" would want the young woman to have an abortion. Pro-choicers, however, would want the young woman to have the option of an abortion, among others, in case that is what she wants. Whether the conception is "dirty" or not is up to the woman herself. If she decides to keep the child and raise it, then it is certainly no one's place to denigrate that child's worth because of the circumstances of his/her conception.

4. I would GLADLY sit down with ANY abortion minded woman/child, for ANY reason- in this case, rape or incest. This is what I would say to her (Short version):
[snip]

No, no, no. You're merely attempting to scare her into not having an abortion. She still has the option. (And if she were well-informed, she'd know that your story is hardly universal.)

What I was positing was the scenario where she does not have the option of an abortion, and you have to tell her that.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 25, 2009 - 2:58pm.
I will happily sit down

I will happily sit down with the ONE PERCENT of all women who want to abort due to rape or incest. You sit down with the ONE PERCENT health of the mother cases, and who gets to sit down with the other 98% that are convenience only abortions?

Submitted by Lisa on February 28, 2009 - 7:54pm.
you can happily piss off

I will happily sit down with the ONE PERCENT of all women who want to abort due to rape or incest

And what do you believe that will accomplish?  I've terminated a rape-related pregnancy and I'd do it again without question.  I know a surprising number of women who have become pregnant as a result of rape.  The majority of the women I've met over the past 15+ years terminated their rape-related pregnancies and are only too happy to fight for the right of any other woman to have that choice.  Several of the women I've met have gestated, given birth and opted to adopt out... I do know one woman who chose to gestate, give birth and raise her child.  None of these choices were easy for these women to make, and All of these women are thankful to have been able to make this decision for themselves; and most importantly, not one of them would ever dream of taking that choice away from another woman. 

I'm also wondering why the circumstances surrounding the intercourse would make a difference as the zygote, embryo and/or fetus would be identical regardless.  And as for women who have had their health compromised by a pregnancy... the only person these women need "sit down with" are their medical doctors.

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on March 1, 2009 - 6:03pm.
The point

The point is that rape incest and health of the mother is ALWAYS used to defend abortion however these cases only make up 2% (probably a generous%)of all abortions.
So, why do pro-aborts always use this as their fall back argument?
I know many pro-lifers who would be thrilled if abortion was made legal only in those circumstances, an not legal in the rest of the reasons given to abort.
I just will keep praying that you all see the light one day that it just ain't right to kill people. For any reason. At any age. At all! Ever! You my dear are here, so I guess you escaped and now get to chose who dies. I would say, "Who died and made you God", but another problem is many of you do not even believe in God, so that never hits home with you. What a filthy mess this whole thing is.

Submitted by Lisa on March 2, 2009 - 3:29pm.
No point.

I know many pro-lifers who would be thrilled if abortion was made legal only in those circumstances, an not legal in the rest of the reasons given to abort.

Yes, because pro-lifers are under the mistaken impression that the circumstances of how the pregnancy came about makes any difference.

I just will keep praying that you all see the light one day that it just ain't right to kill people. For any reason. At any age. At all! Ever!

Lisa, you are praying for us to FORCE WOMEN TO CARRY UNWANTED PREGNANCIES TO TERM. We will never accept that, and will continue to fight for every woman to have choice---you included---until society learns to respect women as equals of men, and anti-choice activism finally falls by the political wayside.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 2, 2009 - 5:53pm.
Listen-women and men are

Listen-women and men are different. Men cannot carry babies, women can. You are degrading women by wanting to make them equal to men. You know what? Here's a much more powerful argument: I am so much more powerful than a man because I am woman! I can fully grow and nurture a new life INSIDE MY BODY!!! HOLY COW! AND...give birth, AND THEN, feed that baby from my breast!!! YES!!! And, I could do all of that while, talking on the phone, making breakfast and doing the dishes.....ALL AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!!!!! C'mon ladies....that is clearly NOT equality, because we all know a man can come no-where close to that kind of multi-tasking. Now, please do not mistake these tasks as servitude(I know someone will) You could use any sort of example here, the woman who is feeding her infant from her breast while washing her car in the driveway that she earned with her six-figure income that she earns while talking on the phone with the people that work for her in the business she owns....WHATEVER.... In MY view, we are so much more capable than men in many regards because of this unique gift that God has given us, the ability to complete the act that sex with a man brought about-the making of a complete human life! This pro-abortion argument is the one that is anti-woman, you are trying to take away our power. I do not EVER want equality with a man, if equality means dumbing down my superior ability over him! :) Think about what I am saying! THINK!!

Submitted by Lisa on March 3, 2009 - 7:57am.
Choice takes away power?

This pro-abortion argument is the one that is anti-woman, you are trying to take away our power.

Um... so giving women the choice to decide whether they want to use this "power" or not is actually depriving them of that power? Okaaaay....

Think about what I am saying! THINK!!

Oh, yes. It reminds me of a country where women are held in extremely high regard, as the guardians of social morality, childbearing, and all that holy and good. Where every man is tasked with the duty to protect women from harm.

The name of the country? Saudi Arabia.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 3, 2009 - 10:47am.
C'mon...don't leave out the

C'mon...don't leave out the part where the woman in Saudi Arabia is also multi-tasking the washing of the car that she earned with the six-figure income from the business that she owns while she feeds her baby at her breast...in Saudia Arabia that happens? She has the right to own a business in Saudia Arabia?

I am seeing the root of the pro-abort argument: man haters.

A feeling of inferiority for some odd reason, turned into a "do no injustice to me! I feel so inferior that I will retaliate by killing!"

Whatever....

More like a contempt for that man God, your creator.

Yes, we pray for you. Your Lord still loves you regardless and so do I because it is what he asks of me.

I certainly pray that you wake up from this dream, as I did, and admit to yourself what abortion actually is and what abortion actually does, so that you may be set free.

Submitted by Lisa on March 3, 2009 - 10:58am.
that comment was so stupid

 It made my HAIR hurt! 

I'm a pro choice woman and I love men. Particularly those who are smart enough to know women are capable of making their own reproductive decisions.  You are intensely sick to believe women choose abortion because they hate men or despise God. I'm fully awake and I know what abortion is and what it does: a medical procedure which ends a pregnancy.  Wake up, a lil' Lisa, wake up!

 

Your grievance shall be avenged.

Submitted by otaku1960 on March 3, 2009 - 12:28pm.
It is a medical procedure

It is a medical procedure which kills a human life.

You love men who will care nothing about a life that they may help you create and what you will do about it if neither of you wants that life.

Just keepin' it real.

It doesn't make any sense why you pro-aborts REFUSE to just say what it is. It is an intentional killing of a human being in what is supposed to be the safest place that human being would ever know on this earth.

You are all living in such complete denial of this FACT.

You have all been TRICKED into looking at abortion as all about your right to choose.....it is about your right to KILL YOUR BABIES!! Wake up people!!

BTW, what does 'your grievance shall be avenged' mean? Why do you sign with that?

Submitted by Lisa on March 3, 2009 - 2:23pm.
I'll give you the

I'll give you the "intentional killing of a human life" bit, if you'll give me that abortion is "the intentional killing of a human life that resides inside my body". And as I get to decide who lives in my house and who rides in my car, I also get to decide who or what lives in my body. And if I don't want it there, then it's gone.

If that sounds heartless to you, then fine, don't have an abortion and don't "kill a human life". But quite frankly, I know what abortion is, at every stage of gestation, and I really don't care. Because if I don't want it inside my body, then it doesn't get to stay there. And death may be an unfortunate side effect of that, but so what.

Submitted by ks on March 4, 2009 - 1:16pm.
KS, yeah, too bad God

KS, yeah, too bad God couldn't come up with a way to get those dang humans to gestate somewhere other than a woman's dang ol'body. No Doubt!

Thanks for at least admitting that it is a human life, no one else will.

Submitted by Lisa on March 4, 2009 - 2:34pm.
There is a difference

There is a difference between human life and actual personhood, though. An abortion destroys the potential for personhood, but it doesn't kill an actual, living, breathing person.

And as I'm not mandated by law to give blood, kidneys, or the use of any other organs to my actual, born children, I surely should not be mandated by law to actually make them. And we're talking about the law of the US here, which is secular and applies to everyone living in the US, not any kind of religious laws, which only apply to those who subscribe to particular religious views, which many of us do not.

Submitted by ks on March 5, 2009 - 8:58am.
KS, An abortion absolutely

KS,
An abortion absolutely destroys a living human, a person. To say it is a potential person, or potential human, is to say that it could at some point be anything other that a human or person. In fact-it can only grow into a larger version of what it already is-a human being, a living person. This living human has a heart like yours and mine which will begin beating in a mere 22 days after conception. A beating heart clearly indicates that the human in the womb is alive.

Submitted by Lisa on March 5, 2009 - 3:39pm.
"To say it is a potential

"To say it is a potential person, or potential human, is to say that it
could at some point be anything other that a human or person."

 

Pardon but just because you pretend to speak for God and have clearly never studied logic you still cannot reinvent the meanings of words  or rules of normal english usage. A blastocyst is a potential human in precisely the same sense a walnut is a potential tree. And most walnuts, like most blastocysts do not mature. I would say that they 'die' but, then they really weren't alive to begin with,

Indeed when you folks call a fetus or blastocyst a 'baby' and wax on endlessly about your faith based notions of science you instantly marginalize yourselves and sound like hysterical and slightly unbalanced children.

Besides, aren't Catholics supposed to give up texting for Lent?

 

 

Submitted by colleen on March 5, 2009 - 7:17pm.
Colleen

The walnut will have to be planted and watered and cared for in order to advance into a tree. The blastocyst,in contrast, is what has already been planted. Left alone, that blastocyst will become the human in full embryo form, then a human in fetal form, and finally a born human baby. If left alone to grow and mature, the planted walnut will grow into a tree. If left alone to grow and mature, the blastocyst will grow into a baby human.

I am not quite sure what you mean by, "and most walnuts, like mosts blastocysts do not mature", this is something I am pretty sure you could never know for certain.

This is pure science. Very simple, very real and true.

And please -don't forget- that the human heart begins beating 22 days after conception.

Submitted by Lisa on March 5, 2009 - 8:22pm.
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