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Bush, Our Ex-Boyfriend

Cristina Page's picture

Bush is the ex-boyfriend we've finally gotten out of our life only to discover he left an unpleasant souvenir, like an STD. A particularly nasty strain too, in the form of new HHS regulations.

The HHS regulations were a last minute, hastily executed,
unconstitutionally vague, attempt by Bush to repay his only loyal
constituency left, the religious right wing. The regulations attempt
to expand health care workers right to "consciously object" to the
broadest array of health care services imaginable, basically anything,
even in medical emergencies. They can, in other words, refuse to
provide you medical care, because it offends them! It opens the door
to many patient abuses, shreds state laws and contradicts federal
discrimination statutes. Healthcare workers would be able to withhold
information from a patient about healthcare options without the
patient even knowing that any information is being withheld. Patients
can be refused referrals if the healthcare worker objects to the care
they're seeking somewhere else.

And here is one particularly bizarre twist. The regulations specify
that workers don't have to inform their employers of the service or
services they object to before hand. It's also unclear the extent to
which employers have the right to ask job applicants about their
willingness to take part in the services they provide. Thus, imagine
the situation in which an anti-choice person applies for a position at
Planned Parenthood. Her employer couldn't ascertain that she's against
abortion, nor could it fire her when she refused to have anything to do with it.

But the regulations' real intent (revealed in a draft version of the proposal leaked this summer) is perhaps worse: to allow those who want to obstruct a woman's access to birth control full license. Keep in mind, there is already ample protection for those who do not wish to take part in abortion services, three laws in fact. The right to refuse to take part in abortion services has existed for over 30 years. Here's the thrust of the new regulations (in my own words), "If you'd like to consider contraception an abortion method and refuse to take part, please do, but also feel free to object to contraception, or any other health care service, for any reason you can dream up. The only thing limiting your right to refuse is your own imagination." Your conscience is yours. Use it how you want. Even if it infringes on the conscience of others.

Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised at anything (but, perhaps, the
timing). The new regulations are the final revenge of an
administration long hostile to women's rights and health. And this
last abusive act will literally take affect in the final minutes of
the Bush administration, the morning of inauguration day.

As Connecticut attorney General Richard Blumenthal explained, "On the
way out, the Bush administration has left a ticking political time
bomb that is set to explode literally on the day of the president's
inaugural and blow apart women's rights." Yesterday Blumenthal joined
the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association
(NFPRHA), which represents many county and state health departments
and providers, and Planned Parenthood Federation of America in filing
lawsuits asking the federal court to block the regulations from taking
affect. Blumenthal filed a lawsuit on behalf of his state and six
others (CA, NJ, IL, MA, OR, RI) alleging that the regulations violate
federal law, women's rights and states' sovereign rights to enforce
their own laws.." It's particularly ironic that Bush trampled on
states' rights, something he once professed to value above all else.

The states have particular cause to worry. The federal regulations
could be used to argue that state laws are unenforceable, like those
mandating contraceptive coverage (the law in 27 states) or the
provision of emergency contraception to rape victims (the law in 13
states
).

Bush, as is his way, ignored staunch, diverse and thoughtful
opposition. He dismissed resistance even from within his own
government. Over 200,000 individuals and organizations weighed in
during the public comment period, most opposing the regulation. They
pointed out that
the regulations could throw an entire system into
confusion.

For instance, the American Hospitals Association, not a group known
for taking controversial positions, explained,

Hospitals and their emergency departments are complex entities; as the proposed rule is written, it would be extremely difficult for
hospitals to anticipate all the scenarios under which a health care
worker might invoke the provider conscience clause. As a result it
would be impossible for hospitals to make the staffing arrangements needed to ensure access to those services. The [American Hospital Association] is concerned that access to services for patients may be significantly hampered by the current definitions of this rule.

 

Blumenthal and 12 other state attorneys general jointly offered this comment,

The proposed regulation completely obliterates the rights of patients to legal and medically necessary health care services in favor of a single-minded focus on protecting a health care provider's right to claim a personal moral or religious belief … By focusing exclusively on the personal moral and religious beliefs of the health care provider, the proposed regulation unconscionably favors one set of interests, upsetting the carefully crafted balance that many states have sought to achieve … We urge the HHS to adhere to a basic medical tenet—first, do no harm to the patient—and withdraw the proposed regulation.

During the public comment period, even Bush's own administration—in
this case, the agency charged with protecting against discrimination
including in matters of religious freedom--came out in opposition to
the regs. EEOC Commissioners Stuart J. Ishimaru and Christine M.
Griffin wrote,

The proposed rule is unnecessary to protect the religious freedom and freedom of conscience of healthcare workers, because Title VII already serves that purpose…The issuance of the proposed regulations would throw this entire body of law into question, resulting in needless confusion and litigation in an attempt to redefine religious freedom rights for employees in the healthcare sector…


Bush's team brushed aside all criticism, indifferent to protests,
thoughtful or otherwise. They behaved like a kid doing a book report
who hadn't read the book, to paraphrase one Planned Parenthood lawyer.
They were obligated to respond to comments and so they did, not caring
whether their responses were coherent or consistent. In fact, at one
point they said they agreed with Title VII, which guarantees, among
other things, the right to exert one's conscience in the work place,
and at another they suggested they'd like to reinterpret the act.

The contradictory message was clear in this: We are immune to
criticism. Moral certainty has always trumped evidence or "outside"
opinion among the Bushies. It seemed determined to stick to its guns
all the way out the door.

And so the Obama administration enters office with a thatch of new and
purposely vague regulations on its books. Obama may be a pro-choice
president but Bush has tried to tie his hands. Sadly, Obama can't
merely reverse the regulations with a stroke of his pen, though he has
indicated he would like to. The process to undo regulations is as
time-consuming as it was to push these through. Especially, if a
government is responsive to criticism. Fortunately, the pro-choice
lawyers with their attorney general colleagues have moved decisively
to block implementation until the courts can review the regulations.
An injunction is likely to follow soon.

Util the regulations are definitively overturned, many of those who
have thrived at the margins of the law, in the vaguenesses that Bush
has consistently pushed, may continue to feel empowered.

There was recently, for example, the case of a nurse who removed a
patient's IUD every time she was supposed to adjust one. She's against
birth control. And though she claimed the repeated removals were
merely "accidents," under the HHS regulations she might not have to.


. . . . .
90 comments
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Take heart! We may just find Saddam alive and well and coming to colleges for speaking forums.
Rumor has it that Bush will spend his post-presidency in pro-life advocacy campaigns. Surely no threat there.
Rumor also has it that Clinton is seeing a few hotties around the globe. Damn, I will never get a date with that babe at this rate!
There is some talk that America will finally do a military aid in Darfor! Yeah troups! We are also in for an Obama pseudo draft: The Civilian Militia. Why he is keeping the current Military advisors around is beyond me! Where is the CHANGE? We voted CHANGE and specifically out of the War Monger Bush, Senate, House and the whole 99% of Washington DC that took us there!
Abortion.... well, it is enough, already. Our society is so hurt from it. Every chick I talk to has had one, and hates it! They can't even talk about it due to some unspeakable pain. Guys, too! I have heard 7 guys cry over it. I'm over it already, all right? Fact is, it's just nasty. It is!
Don't ask someone else to perform an abortion until or unless YOU do it ---against YOUR will. Let's see every judge perform a few. Let's see your husband, your neighbor, your grandmother, your daughter, your son, your parents perform a few hundred abortions a month, THEN we can talk about having health care workers forced to end a human life.
Gross. No shame in that.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 4:14am.

There's that Carly Simon song where the verse goes..."You're so vain you probably think this song is about you." Antis who claim everyone wants them to provide abortion services always remind me of it. For one, please be assured that we don't want anti-abortion people caring for women seeking abortions. So, the idea that people opposed to abortion are being forced to take part in abortion care is a total fiction. In fact, of the 1.3 million abortion procedures performed each year there has been no incidence reported of such a case. Second, there are three laws, count them, 3, that have existed on the books--the oldest has for 30 years--protecting those who do not wish to offer abortion care. So, please do your homework before incoherently posting and claiming people are being forced to provide abortion services--they are not. The regulations allows religious extremists to obstruct our access to every other healthcare service as well--including birth control--with out even informing us they are doing it. Re-read the post to understand what the regs actually do. Then try to act snarky.

Submitted by Cristina Page, Moderator, OnCommonGround on January 17, 2009 - 12:14pm.

Being an abortion provider is a choice as well, it is a specialized field and requires a full medical license (M.D.). They are never "forced to end a human life."

Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 10:01am.

Nurses perform it.
Surveys show a growing number of disbarred M.D.s are America's Snuff-Surgeons. 99% of all post-abortive women claim they NEVER "consulted" with their Snuff-Surgeon or pastor or family BEFORE the snuff-surgery of their baby. Most say NO ONE was there for them to calm the panic. Most say they regret and were or are consumed with drenching remorse. Most never knew the sex gender is identifiable at 7 weeks gestation. Most have nighmares for 5-10-20-30 years of their baby rotted in a landfill, sewer drain, or research dissection lab.

Oboma will force Catholic hospitals to perform snuff-surgery because abortitoriums are closing. Perhaps all you Choice of Creep the Critters' could legislate it to be performed in public school after hours. Catholic hospitals will close, thank God. You simply don't get the vile venture of death you so thirst for. If snuff-surgery is to be so "rare" then expect the snuff-surgeons and death dens to be rare, too.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 5:02pm.

99% of all post-abortive women claim they NEVER "consulted" with their Snuff-Surgeon or pastor or family BEFORE the snuff-surgery of their baby

Now, where's that link that will take us to the source for your made up super accurate statistics?  And I think you're confusing the doctors with the dragon (Snuff, the magic dragon anyone?)

Perhaps all you Choice of Creep the Critters' could legislate it to be performed in public school after hours

You should totally write childrens songs... look out Wiggles, Creep the Critters is a comin'!

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on January 17, 2009 - 6:24pm.

Nice!

Submitted by Anonymous on January 23, 2009 - 6:06pm.

Care to post a link to these "surveys" you claim abortion providers are disbarred doctors?   Or the source of the 99% claim?  "Most say"?  According to what source(s)?   Your claim Obama will force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions is completely without merit, because if it had any, you would have posted a link to this news.   You are an embarrassment to the intelligent and pragamatic pro-lifers out there, plus youir posts are better suited to Fred Phelps's lame web stie.

 

Your grievance shall be avenged.

Submitted by otaku1960 on January 17, 2009 - 11:27pm.

Nurses perform them? Really? Well, spank my butt and call me pinky.

 

So when I had my 2 abortions, I suppose that the "M.D." on the nametags of the very nice man and the very nice woman who performed my abortions were just a lie?

Then who were those nice people standing around me holding my hand and trying to lessen the pain I was in?

Submitted by AngryReptileKeeper on January 21, 2009 - 2:56pm.

S A T A N ?

Submitted by Anonymous on March 1, 2009 - 8:38pm.

Crazy...I had an abortion, and there was a doctor there. Introduced herself and everything. And my friend that I told, and my boyfriend there to hold my hand, drive me home, make me dinner, take care of me...that's what, exactly? An illusion?
And wow, all those nights of sleeping well because I know that my boyfriend and I aren't going to be thrown into complete poverty because of all the (uninsured) medical bills associated with pregnancy and birth(at the very least. That's not even metioning the cost of raising a child.)
There is regret for the situation, and pain over a difficult choice. No nightmares or psychological scarring though.
I think you're making shit up.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 24, 2009 - 9:34pm.

The Business of Being Born

Then time warpies like you ignorant pro-aborts won't burden us all with your dribble.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 1, 2009 - 8:41pm.

That whole post is disgusting. The BS about the nightmares; where did you come up with that? I'll tell you what's gross: your imagined consequences of a simple medical procedure.

Also, none of what you said applies to any of the women I know who have had abortions, myself included. And every single one of us had the procedure performed by a medical doctor who chose to be an OBGYN that provides abortion. My own doctor did not, so I found another, WILLING, doctor to perform the procedure. Doctor's aren't being forced to perform abortions so this rule is redundant.

And you're creepy. Really. Go to a therapist and work on those issues. Wow.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 5, 2009 - 8:44pm.

I must say Rh you are getting your fill of crazies lately. Lay off Mellankelly1 as well... This is a place for debate and thoughtful comments on reproductive rights not for hate speech go peddle that crap on your beloved right wing sites we won't have it here, okay? Now if you have something useful to say you are more than welcome here but don't be calling people names and such. Of course I can't speak for RH but I am sure they would agree.

Submitted by Liz Barnes on January 17, 2009 - 6:25pm.

Two comments from an anonymous poster were deleted for violating the civility standards set forth in our commenting policy:

 

We understand that the issues discussed on this website are divisive. Unlike many forums that concern these issues we embrace and encourage a civil discourse about them. We will continue to allow open commenting that is of a civil nature and that seeks to engage the debate, but we will delete without further explanation comments that threaten, demean, or decrease the civility of discussion.

Submitted by Brady Swenson, RH Reality Check on January 17, 2009 - 6:28pm.

She is demeaning poster with negative defaming "crazies" comment. Her comment is offensive and aimed at embarrassing the poster. Because the debate is against her lack of values she coins the poster as "crazy" which is very uncivil and decrease the peace of the discussion.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 7:01pm.

 Her comment is offensive and aimed at embarrassing the poster

I don't think so... "the poster" does a pretty good job of embarrassing him/herself.  Let's please give credit where credit is due, eh?

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on January 17, 2009 - 7:40pm.

Yeah, all those "Croak the
Yeah, all those "Croak the Kid Womb War Wrath" gang of gangsters should never expect Snuff-Surgery Centers to be located across the street of every Doughnut Shop in America. The best location is next to landfills... that way the stench in those clinics will be masked by the rot of garbage rather than baby blood. At your next snuff-surgery, I dare you to look under the table. Dare You!!! So, don't go wondering why most post-abortive chicks walk in and out with womb ravaging infection. Take a good look at the "watery eyed" Snuff-Surgeon, too. Don't go wondering why your womb is perforated. Don't go wondering if you aborted twins, either. If you keep your ears open, the Snuff-Surgeon or nurse will hint there are twins being aborted. (25% of all Snuff-Surgeries are TWINS terminations!)
Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 5:47pm.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 7:51pm.

 Are you available for parties or Bar Mitzvahs, by any chance?

 Your grievance shall be avenged.

Submitted by otaku1960 on January 17, 2009 - 11:10pm.

Threatening? Don't you get enough blood and death in your "movement?" Abortion is linked to violence to children, women, etc. Your threat doesn't scare anyone. Your aura is enough to keep you away from most. What are you going to do? Sic angels of demons on me? lol. It stings to have someone actually CARE about human life. Get over it.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 18, 2009 - 7:55pm.

Christina Page,

Thank you and RH for the updates on this ridiculous and dangerous rule change. I'm still wondering how it is possible for one branch of government to inflict so much damage on our nation. Hopefully out of this the religious right will be further expose themselves as the lying, extremist loons they are, however much they dress themselves up as people of faith and conscience. 

 

I am very interested in the story of the 'conscience' of the nurse who took to removing the IUD's of women unfortunate to have come in contact with her. Unfortunately the link you provided does not work. Another link or some more information which would allow me to research this story more thoroughly would be much appreciated.

 

Submitted by colleen on January 17, 2009 - 8:30pm.

just the implantation of the conceived human.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 10:24pm.

... they prevent the implantation of a human zygote to the uterine wall, thus preventing a pregnancy from beginning, since pregnancy is defined as beginning when the fertilized ovum latches to the lining of the uterus. Women shed zygotes with unique DNA on a regular basis, with or without an IUD.

Submitted by TheRealistMom on January 17, 2009 - 11:12pm.

Terribly invasive and unnatural, isn't it? Could it scar the uterus? Does it prevent STDs?
I thought one was "pregnant" when a conception occurs. Whether the conception of a human being (auh...YOU started your life exactly the same way!) continues to live by phases of that life ie: implanting, growing, nourishment, etc. The womb rejects the occasional conception usually because of womb scars, hormone imbalance (too many years on The Pill?), acidic diets, caffeine toxicity, STDs, etc. There are issues of weak egg or sperm structure, too. Say, a woman was on years of Meth abuse, her eggs may not be viably healthy for months. Even on the Pill, one should wait to conceive one month for every year on the Pill....why? Because the eggs have been affected.
Trust Big Pharma. They've so earned it, girls.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 18, 2009 - 7:58pm.

... pregnancy does not start medically speaking until implantation. And 50% of fertilized ova are believed to be shed in general among women, pill or no pill... there is no such thing as "caffiene toxicity" (there is evidence it MIGHT contribute to very early miscarriage in high doses, but the evidence of correlation is tenuous at best)  and uterine scars are rare. Acidic diets? Where are you getting this stuff? The only thing that might effect would be the cervical mucous making it hostile for sperm, not the uterine lining.

The IUD may be the only full-time contraceptive option for women in long-term relationships who can't tolerate hormonal BC. My docs never told me to wait to concieve after the pill or the use of the Norplant... they just said it might take a couple of months for my cycle to return to normal. It wouldn't affect the ova themselves.  For the record, I concieved the very next month the first time I went off the pill, the first month after Norplant removal, and 2 months after the second time off of the pill.

Submitted by TheRealistMom on January 18, 2009 - 8:09pm.

What about when an in vitro attempt is successful?  There's full zygote there, but it is not inside any woman.

 

If the zygote dies before it can be implanted in the uterus, who is responsible?  The woman, the IVF specialist, the surgeon, God?  And more importantly, WHO CARES?  We should focus on families and children that already exist in the world and who are not having their basic needs yet.

 

Honestly, I don't understand all this energy wasted on zygotes and embryos that could have "potentially" become a human.  By that logic almost all men commit mass murder, probably several times a day!

The personal is political.

Submitted by Alex_M on January 22, 2009 - 12:33pm.

When was the last time you gave a dime or minute of your selfish time to a homeless person?

Thought so.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 1, 2009 - 8:48pm.

Trust Big Pharma. They've so earned it, girls.

My birth control- the NuvaRing- is a lot better than "home" remedies or the "rhythm" method.
So yeah- I do, have and will CONTINUE to "trust big pharma". In fact, I work at an IRB and know that there are a lot more drugs out there that are a LOT worse than all of the birth control pills put together. But all those silly drugs do is help people LIVE with chronic diseases.

As far as "hormonal imbalances" go- I assume from the tenor of your posts that you have a lot more of that to worry about than most everyone else here dear.

Submitted by BBCaddict on January 22, 2009 - 12:39pm.

Oh, you mean this human?

Submitted by AngryReptileKeeper on January 21, 2009 - 3:06pm.

just the implantation of the conceived human.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 17, 2009 - 10:24pm.

IUDs prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg,not a "conceived human".More than half of of all fertilized eggs never even reach the implantation-phase,they get washed out during menstruation without human interference.Please stick to the facts,Anonymous.

Submitted by resident_alien on January 17, 2009 - 10:51pm.

so sorry. I think people who are "repulsed" and deny "human" to a fertilized human egg: an aborted human; etc. are themselves a bit on the "sub"human realm. Deny it is "human" and you have the mind cleared of conscience to kill it... like the Nazi, slave owners, India's infanticide, Muslim Honor Killings, etc. Just think of "it" as "less than" human... "it" is dumb, can't think, inferior being, different, etc. What a load-a-closed hearted freaks. So sad. Laughably pitiful.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 18, 2009 - 7:50pm.

It is a human zygote. A human ova and sperm are going to produce a human zygote, as opposed to a bovine or canine one. Skin cells are human, if they come off of a member of homo Sapiens. Of course the product of conceptus is human.

 

The question is- is it a "person". No more so than the other hundreds of fertilized eggs it is possible for a woman to shed with her menses. Your anaolgy doesn't work here... Nazis etc (btw, when you Godwinize an argument, you instantly lose) dehumanized actual born, thinking groups of people.  Some religious fanatics dehumanize women so that they become worthless and have no rights in the idea of the ruling male class.  The people they attempt to dehumanize can, in fact, think and have sentience. A fertilized egg != person. It is a POTENTIAL unique human, because the cells have human DNA. Unless it literally parasitizes a woman, taking over her womb and circulation, and takes nine months to develop, it will not become a child, a complete "person".

It is not "dehumanizing" anything to note that a fertilized egg is just that, a single cell. It will split a couple of times before implantation. It cannot think, feel, have any kind of sentience, as it is simply a group of dividing cells at that point. Unless you think individual cells have the ability to think now?

Submitted by TheRealistMom on January 18, 2009 - 8:25pm.

"Cells" of a Human Being Zygote are THINKING: brain, tongue, hair nerves,...(so much "thinking" is going on women get nausea!) all the new and unique individual, inherited features of the new person are already set- whether it is a boy or girl, color of eyes, hair dimples, chin... all set!... If that isn't "thinking" then what is, pray tell?! It is a miracle of being a Human Being.
As far as "thinking" is concerned, you must know that at 7 weeks the fetus hiccups, frowns, squints, furrows the brow, purses the lips, sucks the thumb, turns head, opens mouth, yawns, kicks.... BUT....it isn't a "thinking" human??? It couldn't possibly be a "human person" because---uh, well, HA, let's hear your explanation again. At 8 weeks EVERY organ is present (as was YOURS) The liver is making blood, the kidneys function, and the heart beats steadily. The skull, elbows, and knees are forming. Of the 4500 structures in the adult body, 4000 are already present at 8 weeks. The skeleton begins to stiffen.

If a woman has a "hostile" womb environment that rejects conception she is considered sterile. There are numerous ways to have her womb be a natural and welcoming life sustaining place for conception.

So... people in comas aren't thinking. People sleeping aren't thinking. OH, wait! Brain waves... they measure fetal brain waves, now! Wow! The 7 week fetus IS thinking!!! Now what?

Talk about "dehumanizing!" Wow! Take a good long look in a mirror. Seriously! There is dehumanizing in just about everything our secular culture pukes up: porn; hideous drug addiction; child, animal, spousal violence; abortion; food, land, air toxin feed; depopulation; etc.

Is a 2 month old baby a "potential" criminal or a "potential" world famous author? Do YOU parasite off mother earth? Do you parasite off your parents, husband, employer, farmer? YOU are a parasite .... a worthless feeder? Or do you go out to your field and suck the tit from your own cow every day? YOU are a parasite feeder on our planet! Drinking the water, using our energy. I wouldn't call a fetus a parasite unless you can legitimately prove you yourself aren't a parasite in our society. If we deem you "worthless" because you can't "think" any longer... well, hopefully you can see how short sighted and callous you sound.
What is it you want the 1 month old to be thinking? What is it YOU need the "human" to be "thinking" for you to consider it a member of the human and spiritual family on earth?

Submitted by Anonymous on January 18, 2009 - 10:36pm.

If that isn't "thinking" then what is, pray tell?!

Thinking is the action of using one's mind to produce thoughts.  Not to be confused with a zygote possessing dna, or rapidly dividing cells.  Medical science is your friend.

BUT....it isn't a "thinking" human???

Listen, I'm super sorry that a seven week old embryo does not have the capacity for thought.  It almost seems as if you're blaming those who support reproductive choice for this scientific fact... we do not get to decide at what point thought is a possiblity, we do not have control over prenatal development.  It just is.... sorry that it doesn't suit your agenda but that is really not our problem.

 OH, wait! Brain waves... they measure fetal brain waves, now!

Anti-abortion rhetoric... do some fact checking (I cannot stress the importance of using non-biased medical sources.)  If you do the proper research you will find that a fetus at seven weeks has live nerve cells present in their brain stems (these are most certainly NOT "brain waves"; brain waves refer to organized activity in the cortex which are first seen at 20 weeks, sustained at 22 weeks and synchronous at 26-27 weeks). The use of misinformation, pseudoscience, half truths and outright lies does nothing for your cause.

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on January 19, 2009 - 11:57am.

.. somehow equals "thinking", then every bacillus on this planet is a sentient being.

 Just a thought for our friend there who seems to equate the possession of coded chains of four amino acids that can be reproduced with the ability to think.

Submitted by TheRealistMom on January 19, 2009 - 1:22pm.

You seem "dead" in spirit. A fetus would have to recite the tax code for you to find it human. So, why is it legal and all right to abort the child inches from a natural birth? Why at 22 weeks? So, if someone is drugged and raped, and never feels, thinks or knows about it... no crime, right?

Submitted by Anonymous on January 20, 2009 - 2:01am.

Hmm, better question: why didn't our parents chastely abstain from sex?

Submitted by pcwhite on January 20, 2009 - 1:58pm.

I'm hardly dead in spirit, since I have three beautiful children that I work to make the world a better place for every day, and want to raise them to be caring, compassionate, responsible adults.

 Why didn't my mother abort the fetus that developed into me? I can't speak for her entirely of course, but I will say one thing- because it was her CHOICE not to. I was born in 1972. The choice was there. I would guess because my sister and I were seven and a half years apart and my mom didn't think she would ever have another child, and because my biological father died shortly before my mother realized she was pregnant and she wanted to have his child played into her decision making. She had a child already and chose to have another. It's all about CHOICES.

Submitted by TheRealistMom on January 20, 2009 - 4:52pm.

Auh.... you aren't her daughter then.... you are just a "choice" a "whim" a "undignified object" (like a dog, or vase, or clothing choice. Your meaningless other than the fact that you were the "chosen one". Got it.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 1, 2009 - 8:53pm.

You meant to say "3 beautiful Choices"
They are not KIDS, they are Choices. You simply chose not to kill them.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 5, 2009 - 3:15am.

Because someone chooses to take on the sacrifices to gestate and bring forth life does not mean the resulting children are undignified objects. Otherwise its like saying that outside of rape removing the choice over sex, any other conceptions are undignified too.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 25, 2009 - 5:36pm.

I hope that you don't eat, for the sake of your own conscience, then. Do you have any idea how many living things suffer and die so that you can live? That carrot in your salad was grown for the sole purpose of being mercilessly ripped out of the ground by it's delicate foliage, shoved into a bag, cut up into pieces and eaten. All while still alive.

And that steak you ate the other day? It's mother was forcibly artificially impregnated and kept in a stall so tiny that it can't turn around. Then when the animal was born, it was taken from it's mother to be raised in a factory farm in the same conditions, then sent to have it's throat cut so it could bleed to death. If it was lucky, it didn't suffer for long. Then it was cut up into pieces so you could enjoy eating it.

 

Not that I find anything inherently wrong with this. Things must die so that others can live. 'Tis the natural way of things. It sucks, but such barabric methods are necessary to feed Earth's large (over)population.

Just saying.

 

Nobody likes a hypocrite.

Submitted by AngryReptileKeeper on January 21, 2009 - 3:32pm.

I don't care whether anti-choicers like me.

 

The personal is political.

Submitted by Alex_M on January 22, 2009 - 11:52am.

As a Vegan I understand. Carrots often remind me of humans. I think they actually are more protected than fetus. Things must be murdered so others can reap KARMA.

If it is such a crowded world why no jobs? Why so many obese slobs? Why no one to care for elderly? Why not enough in our armed forces? Why Austria and France and many others paying parents to have children? Why so much wasted food?

You think abortion is the answer to the world's problems.... what idiots of evil your cold stone souls are.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 1, 2009 - 8:58pm.

Because they are all old. Like anything human is precious. The hell with the rest of the creatures past and present. We human we can destroy what ever gets in our way for the sake of the almighty dollar!!!
Why do we want more selfish rude disgusting humans?????

Submitted by Anonymous on March 25, 2009 - 6:35pm.

if you insist on thinking of it that way, then here's a question for you:

who would you rather dehumanize? the woman, or the fetus? because that's ultimately what it comes down to.

Submitted by Anonymous on January 20, 2009 - 12:10pm.

Positively! YOU!! At least the fetus has a chance of meaning to life, yours is rot for hell.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 1, 2009 - 9:00pm.

What meaning do you have?? You are just another obnoxious human butting into anothers buisiness.

Submitted by Anonymous on March 25, 2009 - 6:38pm.

that certainly shows the true colors of these crazies
Us poor women folk aren't worth a darn-
oooookkkkkaaaayyyy

Submitted by Anonymous on March 25, 2009 - 11:39pm.

What some anti-choice folks don't get is that the pro-choice accepts that a fetus is the result of a human sperm and egg meeting.  We get that it has potential to be born and become a unique individual!  We just recognize that abortion should be an option available to women who are facing an unintended pregnancy.  Making abortion illegal only drives its practice underground.

Submitted by Alex_M on January 18, 2009 - 11:54pm.