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Live Blog: Pro-Choice Messaging's New Wave or Passing Ship?

By Brady Swenson, RH Reality Check

January 22, 2009 - 8:00am

Brady Swenson's picture

Join Gloria Feldt and Sarah Stoesz on the 36th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, Thursday, January 22nd from 3-4pm EST for a live blog discussion about messaging and the reproductive rights movement.  

Gloria Feldt is a leading women's activist and best selling author. She is a former President of Planned Parenthood Federation of America. You can find her writing on the web at www.GloriaFeldt.com. Her much-quoted Heartfeldt Politics Blog offers a unique take on current events from where the political and personal meet.

Sarah Stoesz is President and CEO of Planned Parenthood Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota. Stoesz was a leader in the campaign against South Dakota's Measure 11 working tirelessly to defeat the proposed abortion ban in November 2008.

Click 'Replay' button below to read the full transcript of the discussion.

 

 


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78 comments
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On the 2009 anniversary of Roe v. Wade it is incumbent on us to reconsider the neglect of waiting-room males in the nation's abortion clinics and doctor's offices. Over 600,000 annually sit nervously hoping for news a loved one is now available to leave, free from an ill-timed and unwanted pregnancy. Almost all have been kept from sharing comfort and love in either the procedure or recovery room. All have learned NOTHING about family planning and contraception, both subjects they urgently need help with (25% or so are repeater). We should rectify this sitation today, as it does us no honor: males can become a major partner i reducing the number of abortions, if given the care and education they need.

Submitted by Art Shostak on January 21, 2009 - 9:24am.

1 out of 3 ... is me

blogging my elective second trimester abortion

http://1outof3.blogspot.com/

Submitted by feminist professor on January 27, 2009 - 4:22pm.

Why should males be concerned about abortion?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 1, 2009 - 6:09pm.

...females they don't feel they want to spend the rest of their lives with, should be very concerned about abortion and access to it. Look, we are a species of infinite choices and not all the ones we make are the result of careful planning, not that planning automatically negates unwanted pregnancy. As someone who has never been called upon to take someone to an abortion clinic, nor pay for one, I was torn about the idea of a person presumed to be part of the predicament kept at waiting room's length.
But it occurs to me, had "he" been a little more adamant/educated/prepared about having safe sex (and being a little less inebriated during sex) he wouldn't need to sit in a waiting room! So, consider yourself lucky you don't have to get the procedure and luckier you won't be approached by the "Maury" show for a paternity test. And when it comes to gaining knowledge about birth control, it's never too late to learn, but 'forewarned is 'forearmed!

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 2, 2009 - 9:43am.

Is a male’s concern for abortion is nothing more than a male’s concern for contraception?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 4, 2009 - 10:56am.

I live in a country that was founded on THE BOTTOM LINE! I think reaching sexually-active males through the most-common-denominator (money), at least starts them thinking. I won't speak for every male in America, since not every male here IS an American, for starters. I don't have any "role models" of fathers who pay child-support to women who were merely sex-toys that got pregnant on them, so I can only imagine: it must be FUN going to court every time she thinks he's hiding income she feels the kid(s) ought to have, it must be FUN to have to see her every time he picks up the kid for court-ordered visitation (especially if there's new girlfriend/fiancee/wife waiting in the car), it must be FUN each time he has to watch what he says to the kid or where his hands are because any misstep could have him branded a sexual predator for life, it must be FUN haggling over which holidays the child can come over, it must be REAL FUN when she moves to another state (with a new boyfriend) but he's still paying child support, it must be ABSOLUTE FUN when the child graduates/takes honors in school/gets married and he's never informed in advance so he can share the moment, and it must be MORE FUN THAN BARREL OF MONKEYS when he does get informed the child is about to become a parent under conditions similar to his parenting start-up venture and she tells him "(S)he learned it from you." Damn right, there should be an abortion clinic in every town, if not on every block, because we're really having TOO MUCH FUN!

Perhaps I can reach you with numbers you may not be seeing: you may see the amount of abortions per year, as opposed to the amount of live but unwanted births, as opposed to the total live births. Fine, but did it ever occur to you that (1) in a country this size, not that many females are getting pregnant in any one year; (2) it's still a lot of females getting pregnant who rather wouldn't; (3) that's a lot more sexual encounters for each female to get to pregnancy, not mention all those occuring after fertilization leading up to eventual detection. All those years of abstinence-only "education" have done little to deter people from having sex (don't think the only ones having it are those who get pregnant), but much to keep many unprepared for the consequences of sex without birth control, not just for people who don't want to have children, but people who place themselves in physical/psychological danger BY having children. For many, abortion is a matter of survival.

So, to answer your question, Anon, a male's concern for abortion has little to do with a male's concern for contraception: in most instances, had he not been brainwashed by ab-only education, there would have been contraception used in the first place - he'd be MAN enough to assure this. As the late Redd Fox used to say in his stand-up routine, "what do call a man who doesn't believe in birth control? DADDY!....DAAADDY!" You know, there's a Future Farmers of America, junior ROTC in high school, but I've never heard of Future Distant Daddys of America. Can't be all that great, can it?

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 4, 2009 - 12:44pm.

Would the survival be extended to more women if women were also allowed post birth abortions?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 5, 2009 - 10:57am.

If the right to life post birth were extended over the womans body.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 5, 2009 - 11:52am.

..Baby Grace, Caylee Anthony and many others: cute kids to look at but they should have never been born!

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 6, 2009 - 11:23am.

you may be right, but should they have been aborted or should those parents have taken more responsibility...I guess that is the question...not really sure what the answer is though

Submitted by Blogging Product on March 17, 2009 - 4:46pm.

Being unsure of your answer, this is a rewording of the prior question.

Would legal post birth abortions provide more women more survival?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 5, 2009 - 8:32pm.

...MURDER? I see where this going. You can't equate abortion with the killing of anyone who has already been logged into the government's computers as a person. To my knowledge, not a single person was given a Social Security number while in utero. Want to spend some (tax) money to assure every pregnancy is given an SS# by having webcams reveal conception even before the woman knows it? And if the conceived one were lost from spontaneous abortion, do we execute the woman or give her Survivor Benefits? Oh, please, stimulate the economy by borrowing $10-trillion to establish that farce, because that's what it will take to wire and monitor every uterus in America. Your "faith" is an obstacle to our Reality!

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 6, 2009 - 11:34am.

...Death in childbirth, especially after doctor says dead fetus will her kill her if not expeditiously removed, enraged husband/boyfriend/buddy killing her once she shows. That's just two, I'm sure there's more! Someone help me out here: more complications when abortion is delayed?

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 6, 2009 - 11:42am.

It would be involuntary homicide if she does anything such as strenuous activity to her own body that hinders the embryos right to use her organs to maintain its life. Tampon testing as a crime investigation.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 6, 2009 - 5:48pm.

If the right to life post birth were violating the womans bodily integrity.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 6, 2009 - 5:05pm.

...consuming caffeine and breast feeding, in addition to strenuous activity, can have the same result.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 6, 2009 - 6:41pm.

Is caffeine good for nursing babies?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 6, 2009 - 7:31pm.

I was referring to the effects of each (caffeine, breast feeding, and strenuous activity) on the embryo.

What do you think? Is caffeine good for a nursing baby?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 6, 2009 - 7:36pm.

Is a nursing baby good for caffeine?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 6, 2009 - 7:40pm.

A baby was born alive in Florida and thrown away in a botched abortion attempt.

Forgive us, God.

Submitted by Kevin on February 7, 2009 - 10:52am.

What does God need to forgive us of?

p.s. web masters should take credit for altering entries.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 7, 2009 - 3:26pm.

I can't tell one Anon from the next - just how many people are posting is it just one person talking to him/herself? I haven't flagged any entry because I technically can't see it violating policy, but there are serious questions of accuracy and use of terminlogl, starting with the term "post birth abortion," which in this person's eyes does not equate to "partial birth abortion."

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 8, 2009 - 10:19am.

Yes, Christopher there are two Anonymous. I joined in with you due to issues with the same misuse of terms.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 8, 2009 - 11:17am.
Christopher, first, thank you for your time and willingness to engage in conversation here. I have reviewed the comment thread, and understand your frustration but also agree that no one specific comment yet violates our commenting policy. We may review our policy allowing anonymous commenting on the site at some point but for now will maintain it as there are many people, holding all points of view on these issues, who will only feel comfortable posting anonymously. Again, thanks for your time and well-written thoughts. Brady
Submitted by Brady Swenson, RH Reality Check on February 9, 2009 - 9:27am.

This may be a new (haven't seen it before) tactic on the trolls' part to confuse those of us who use names, thinking each Anon's post comes from the same person. I apologize in advance for any "friendly fire" you may have received.

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 9, 2009 - 8:15am.

No problems Christopher, I too appreciate your comments. Just to add to your comment above about not being able to equate the bad terms to partial birth abortion...just the same in not being able to equate anything after birth with abortion given the womans bodily integrity isn’t being violated to maintain anothers life after birth.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 9, 2009 - 12:11pm.

Who can be bothered be first amendment fire?

Would legal post birth (i.e. toddler/newborn) abortions provide more women more survival?

My mistake in thinking a prior post was altered by the web master.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 9, 2009 - 10:53am.

...Please do not redefine murder or infanticide as abortion, so someone can erroneously define actual abortion procedures as something that they are not (i.e. murder/infanticide). Who should be bothered by pretzel logic (i.e. Limbaugh/O'Reilly) wrapped in the First Amendment? Everyone!

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 13, 2009 - 9:56am.

Why do you limit the abortion definition to pre birth?

Would legal toddler/newborn homicide provide more women more survival?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 14, 2009 - 1:42pm.

Abortion is shorthand for induced abortion of a pregnancy. Childbirth terminates the pregnancy.

Submitted by Arium on February 14, 2009 - 2:14pm.

Similarly, why limit protections for the right to life when someone needs anothers body after birth? Would a newborn have better survival if it was protected when it needed the same resources in the womans body it had prior to birth? Why can someone go to jail for trying to maintain their life if they do so by violating anothers bodily integrity? Why is it infanticide to refuse to act on behalf of a newborn to feed or shelter it, but its not also infanticide to refuse to act to provide from ones bodily integrity?...especially if the resources in need were the same again that it had prior to birth? Why is it that putting a body part in a womans vagina after birth called sex and not partial re-birth?...and sometimes criminalized. So many distinctions made at birth.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 14, 2009 - 2:01pm.

I still say no to abortion. I never consider "accidental" children as their parents' mistakes. They will always be a gift that should be treasured. Regardless of how many months the baby has spent in his/her mother's womb, it IS a life worth protecting from harm. In the first place, if a couple never intended to have a child, they should have known better the consequences of their sexual intercourse. It does not take a great amount of intelligence to understand that a penile insertion into the vagina might result to a pregnancy. Hello, elementary biology?

George

Submitted by George Atkins - Good Credit on February 15, 2009 - 12:25pm.

I still say no to abortion. I never consider "accidental" children as their parents' mistakes. They will always be a gift that should be treasured.

Tell that to someone who can't afford to "treasure" the child. That may be what YOU would do, and that is perfectly fine and more power to you. But it's pretty freaking arrogant of you to say that that is what others SHOULD do in the same situation.

In the first place, if a couple never intended to have a child, they should have known better the consequences of their sexual intercourse.

Couples have sex for reasons other than having a baby, you know. Consent to sex is NOT consent to pregnancy, any more than consent to getting into a car is consent to becoming a paraplegic in an accident.

It does not take a great amount of intelligence to understand that a penile insertion into the vagina might result to a pregnancy. Hello, elementary biology?

Hello, birth control. You may have heard of it. It allows people to have sex without making a baby. Sometimes it fails. When it does, not everyone can nor should have the same attitude as you do regarding such an "accident."

Submitted by Anonymous on February 15, 2009 - 1:47pm.

So the pre born deserves to bears the risk of failed or no contraception?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 15, 2009 - 5:15pm.

The pre-conceived are also pre-born too.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 15, 2009 - 6:51pm.

Why should a newborn bear the risk of having been born? They didn't choose to give up their mothers body.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 15, 2009 - 7:00pm.

...people, who feel their lives have more meaning when they are surrounded by people forced to live meaningless, destitute lives. It pains me to think I once held such a Christian attitude, where one striving to live one's own life by Scripture has to see others judged to live otherwise - especially when such judgements include a less-favorable living situation than one's own, and feel better about one's life. Yeah, it's hard to point fingers and say "That female is whore because she didn't marry before having sex," when the female doesn't have any children in tow, drives a nicer car than yours and lives in bigger house than yours. All you can say about the single, unattached, childless, "affluent" female is "how many abortions has SHE had?" Not quite the same punch that the other statement packs, because you don't know the answer and it's driving you crazy (OCD?).
That's what it's all about: JEALOUSY. A feeling you're losing to Jones, John and/or Jane because their lives might look a little better than yours because you did what was expected of you (go to church, marry, play reproductive roulette because your local society demands it, and suffer the mounting debt of too many kids because that's what God wanted). Too bad for you the people you envy, many of them LGBT, many of them having had abortions, many of them never in committed relationships, don't all live a more desperate life than your own, be it real or imaginary. I just saw a video banned by a TV station detailing the "threat" of homosexuality in our land, without acknowledging the self-hypocrisy, and it couldn't keep the word "abortion" out of the dialogue. And you wonder why we think everyone who's part of the Religious Right are all the same. Your neurosis (and I'm being kind here) would be comical 30 years ago, but there's too much at stake to let it go. The constant attempts to change the language to suit your needs are indicative of a need less to win, but more not to lose! Believe there will be a judgement in the afterlife, for your envy-fueled support of the theocrat Bush is bringing US closer to the Apocalypse, and if there's anything your God has a problem with, it's forcing His hand!

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 16, 2009 - 2:12pm.

...more Americans adopted a gay life-style? But that would be cheating, wouldn't it? It never occured to you so many marriages end in failure and violence, but never address root causes, such as out-dated family planning and one partner's need (yes, need) to be a little less monogamous and/or a little more LGBT, than the other. Do you have such self-control, you don't dare look at the just-divorced man and woman and say, "never should have been married to begin with," because that would admit any marriage without strict government regulation is prone to failure in a world where one does not need to do much to be connected to the next town, or the other side of the world, for that matter. The world may still be flat, to you, but what challenges your beliefs is that it is also SMALL.

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 16, 2009 - 2:28pm.

When you leave Christianity, are you allowed to leave the “do not kill” part too?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 17, 2009 - 10:53am.

...must settle instead with children sexually abused by its priests. While Catholicism bears the brunt of institutionalized pedophilia, it is by no means the only offender in the "Christian" world: it was a lot easier to rape kids when abortion was illegal because there were so many of them getting sent off to die in our wars, but now that we have more children by choice, parents are more protective of their future investments. I wouldn't send anyone's child to die for less than nothing in Iraq and I certainly wouldn't leave them in the company of a priest or minister. Hypocrites!

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 17, 2009 - 11:16am.

And then the chapter in Numbers where a woman who is caught in an affair must be given a potion that induces the contents of her womb to drop out.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 17, 2009 - 11:47am.

...since people so slavishly wish to protect the unborn, I have already killed! Every time I was part of unprotected sex and pregnancy did not result, I killed the cells that could have fertilized because obviously it was something I was not doing, thereby falling under the "what I have failed to do" in praying for forgiveness for the multitudinous transgressions against God in-between Sundays (for me it's even worse, since I have used latex to prevent, therefore, I've killed because of "what I have done"). And I was almost 20 before giving my virginity, so there's been a lot of killing going on for years "Every sperm is sacred (Monty Python's "the Meaning of Life")," therefore the octuplet Mom should be canonised as a saint forthwith because she let SOOOO many more sperm live than the rest of us. I hope all you pro-choicers out there see the sarcasm here, but don't be surprised at the sarchasm between this post and the theocratic response. I'm still waiting for the reponse to my "envy" challenge - must be true. The next time someone wants to remove a splinter from a pregnant woman's eye, look in the mirror for the log in your own! Most of the people who heard Jesus were too poor to afford mirrors: no excuses today!

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 17, 2009 - 11:44am.

Christopher, loved your comments above about changing the language too. Bravo!

Submitted by Anonymous on February 17, 2009 - 11:53am.

Is a prenatal no more human than a single sperm?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 17, 2009 - 8:23pm.

The prenatal? From wikipedia: Prenatal care refers to the medical care recommended for women before and during pregnancy. Do you mean single or multiple eggs? If its human eggs, or human sperm aren’t they all human? Even cancer in humans is human. Are two fertilized eggs that combine into a single egg post-conception more human than they were as individual fertilized eggs? Should they still be counted as two humans?...or did somebody die? Is an embryo that splits post conception into two separate embryos, are these separate embryos somehow each less human given they were only one conceptus, therefore the two are only one human in total?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 18, 2009 - 8:20pm.

...prenatal? In the eyes of at least one Church, YES! Doesn't matter if he makes twice as much as me, finds the cure for cancer and even is "pro-life," he's an abomination and no act committed against him is sinful in the eyes of the insecure God whose insecure Church I left. Curious how we can "play God" through in-vitro fertilization but we are murderers when pregnancy is terminated - admittedly "with extreme prejudice!" Bring back Torquemada and the Inquisition, so my clone and all the people connected with the abortion industry and their clients can be tortured for ten years before being burned alive at the stake: that would be such a growth industry our economic troubles would evaporate!
I wonder how much cash the IVF industry donates to to faith-based charities to maintain that double-standard?

Submitted by Christopher F. Vota on February 18, 2009 - 9:58am.

Why would homicide against your clone differ from homicide against your (if you had one) identical twin brother?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 18, 2009 - 8:11pm.

Would the clone have the right to his body to maintain its life so that he would have a need to stop it?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 18, 2009 - 8:13pm.

Is scratching his own skin, thereby killing the other cells, each one at the same stage of life as his first clone was, an act of homicide of his other clones?

Submitted by Anonymous on February 18, 2009 - 8:24pm.

Christopher, if you have any need to stop an itch you might be committing homicide of your clone and other clones.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 18, 2009 - 9:18pm.