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Obama's Late Term Abortion Comments Ignore Stark Realities

Lynda Waddington's picture

Thirteen years ago I became an unwilling pawn in the first matches of the national debate on late term abortion. The experience has afforded me a personal perspective that few share. Unfortunately, for myself and a small percentage of other affected women, proximity to an issue has never been a requirement of opinion.

Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama recently clarified his position on late term abortion to the publisher of Relevant magazine:

"...I have repeatedly said that I think it's entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother. Now, I don't think that "mental distress" qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term. Otherwise, as long as there is such a medical exception in place, I think we can prohibit late-term abortions."

It was 13 years ago that a Democrat-turned-Republican Florida congressman named Charles Canady held a meeting with Keri Folmar, a lawyer on his payroll, and Douglas Johnson, a lobbyist for the National Right to Life Committee, and the trio first coined the non-medical phrase "partial-birth abortion" that is now written into legislation.

At roughly the same time as that fateful meeting, I sat in my obstetrician's office and listened without fully understanding as the doctor repeated the medical term "anencephaly" over and over in reference to the child I carried.

More than a month later I sat in a university hospital with obstetrician number five as he patiently and painstakingly presented ultrasound scans from "normal" pregnancies and then scans from my own pregnancy. Each of the multiple anomalies present -- omphalocele, spina bifida, anencephaly and others -- were explained and, for the first time I fully understood why the child I already deeply loved and wanted would never survive outside of my womb.

Several days after that appointment my husband and I, in consultation with the doctor, made the decision that we would not attempt to carry to term and would terminate.

Because there were only potential and no immediate threats to my physical health, there are many who would stand in judgment of our family's decision. To be honest, there are many who have and still do. One thing that has stood out, however, is the fact that other families who have faced similar choices -- even those who made the opposite decision -- have never wagged an accusatory finger in our direction. There's something about the process of deciding between Option A and your child's death, Option B and your child's death or Option C and your child's death that tends to put things in perspective. A perspective, it seems, of which Senator Obama has absolutely no understanding.

On one hand, I'd like nothing better than to take Obama's hand and force him to walk each and every step of that experience with me. I want him to know the bittersweet feel of a child that will never live outside of the womb against his insides. I want him to wake up in the middle of the night and just for a moment know peace before the reality of what's taken place comes crashing down again. I want him to have to sit and look at pictures of contorted infant cadavers as a doctor does his best to explain the anomalies. I want him to understand the force of a parent's sorrow and prayer as one life is offered on behalf of another. I want him to feel the nation's war of words in relation to abortion as personally and as raw as I do. I want him to understand that psychological wounds leave horrific scars.

On the other hand, the dismal truth is that I'm not that cruel. Even if I had the ability to force my memories and my experiences on Obama... even if by doing so I could virtually guarantee that he'd never again utter such an ignorant (at best) or politically-motivated (at worst) response... I couldn't do it. What I've experienced is something I'd never wish, much less willingly give, to another person.

One thing I can provide, however, is a first-hand glimpse into what Obama's policy clarification would have meant in my real-life situation.

By the time I had the appointment with the fifth obstetrician, my body was retaining far more amniotic fluid than the pregnancy required, an uncomfortable condition known as polyhydramnios. The doctor told me that because of the excess fluid it was more likely that the pregnancy would not come to term before the child died. If the child died, and my body didn't begin a spontaneous abortion, there were risks of infection.

Although we had made the decision to terminate the pregnancy, we first had to deal with state law requirements in relation to late term abortions. When our waiver was denied, our doctor referred us to another physician in a nearby state. An ultrasound the morning of the two-day procedure showed that our child had already died. Further tests concluded that I had already developed an infection.

Obama's policy clarification states that he would require a "strict" health exception. It's doubtful that the possibility of early fetal demise resulting in an infection would fit the requirements. Most likely, under his policy, I would not have had an option to terminate. I would have continued the pregnancy and, given the known outcome, would have received minimal prenatal care. As a result, instead of the fetal demise going undetected for an estimated two days, it could have gone undetected until I began to experience the full-blown affects of infection.

At the time of this pregnancy, we already had a then three-year-old daughter. She remained blissfully unaware of the pregnancy, the diagnosis and the termination. I was able to wait until I thought she was emotionally ready to hear and understand what happened so long ago.

Obama's plan does not allow for parents to decide when their other children learn about a sibling's death.

If there is such a thing as adding insult to this sort of injury, however, the award goes to Congress and the Bush administration for their passage of the "Partial Birth Abortion Ban," and the U.S. Supreme Court for their ruling in Gonzalez v. Carhart. While this piece of legislation does nothing to limit late term abortions, it does outlaw a specific procedure that allowed doctors to remove the fetus body intact.

Just to be clear, given that in my case the child suffered from anencephaly, it would be next to impossible for me to have had a true dilation and extraction procedure. To be graphic, an ancephalic child has no skull to prohibit its passage through the cervix. However, if I were to undergo a termination for an ancephalic child today, the doctor, according to law, would not be able to deliver the fetus in one piece. That is, our law now requires the fetus to be dismembered prior to removal from the uterus. Not only is this a more invasive procedure, but it prevents the parents of ancephalic children from holding their child after a termination has been completed.

According our Supreme Court, our current President and a majority of those serving in Congress, only a mother who opts to carry to term should be given the privilege of holding the intact body of her dead son or daughter.


. . . . .
29 comments

I'm sorry what you went through 13 years ago. And you're right, I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone else. I experienced the same 5 years ago. One thing I have to disagree with is this...It is unfair in your article to say that "an ancephalic child has no skull to prohibit its passage through the cervix". Just because the child lacks a skull, that alone doesn't prohibit the mother from having a natural birth. Even if you "induce" a pregnancy with the purpose of terminating it, the uterine muscles will push the baby out. Please read my story. There are many miracles like mine. I gave natural birth to a full-term boy who was NOT induced, no bones broken, came out head-first and lived 7 minutes in my arms. Although many cases are different, your statements should be more accurate.

Submitted by Eli on July 8, 2008 - 5:00pm.

Eli, I'm truly sorry for your loss. I think my statement may read differently than I intended it. I wasn't trying to say that the lack of skull prohibits a vaginal birth. I was trying to explain why, in the case of an anencephalic child, there is a low probability of head being unable to pass through a medically dilated cervix.

A good friend of mine was able to spend nearly 14 minutes with her daughter before she died. I'm glad you had your seven minutes and wish you'd have had more.

Submitted by Lynda Waddington, New Journalist Fellow on July 8, 2008 - 5:47pm.
Lynda, Thank you for sharing your powerful personal story and the pain of the private medical decision you and your family made. This should be required reading for anyone daring to make judgments of another person's personal life decisions, and should underscore the complexity of reproductive health, and why private decisions should be made by the people and the professionals directly involved. Not judges. Not politicians.


Be the change you seek,

Scott Swenson, Editor

Submitted by Scott Swenson, RH Reality Check on July 8, 2008 - 5:23pm.

the voices of women who have these abortions, or any abortions, is worth more than anything I say, or Scott says, or even other women. I want more women who had abortions to speak out, and I want them to do so without me or anyone standing there, "prepping" them. I'm not accusing any of you of anything, but after seeing things like this by Canada's "prolife prowoman" which tries to contest the stories of I'm Not Sorry, while accepting the stories of "regretful women". Here

My point is is that these jerks will always find a way to skew the testimonies to their favor. I know we'll never stop them from doing that, but its a call to always let women speak "unprepped".

The flipside is that, who speaks unprepped? Anyone who writes out or says anything without "uhs" "ums" or rambling is doing so because they practiced. Public Speaking 101.

Would it be better if we were caught on the spot and asked to talk about our experiences? How articulate can anyone be about something personal without mentally organizing it? Is this what these pro-lifers are holding against us.

Of course the women missing from this are the women who had children they didn't want and suffered silently from then until this very day. These women have it worse because the social pressures and upbringing would prevent a mother from admitting such a thing to even herself. How can any mother say she wishes her child had never been born? I know that is a terrible thing for the child to hear - and I don't advocate she tell it to the child. It would be abusive. But the outsiders - her "peers" - won't necessarilly tolerate that answer either: "there, there, you don't mean that." "think of all the joy your child has brought" or whatever. She clearly would go back and start over, but her "well-meaning" peers won't let her say it.

How is THIS not coaxing? Like the coaxing pro-lifers THINK we do for the I'm not Sorry ladies? And why are we to assume that no such coaxing exists for the "abortion survivors".

Are we to assume that the only genuine testimonies are the ones where women claim regret? Any non-regretful, or ambivalent, answer is to be dismissed?

At the end of the day, we never know who's being honest with themselves. We never know who is saying what they mean. We never know who is "in denial". Everytime someone describes their personal experience it could be completely accurate, somewhat spun, doctored and coached, or fractured with selective memory.

That is the risk of the personal testimony.

So what's the right conclusion? It seems women who have abortions are capable if a diverse, possibly infinite range of possibilities of emotional interpretation. Some have regret, some don't. Some might regret later. Some regret now, but move out of it. Some are more nuanced and ambivalent than this dichotomy of "regret vs no regret". Often feelings change and evolve. But sometimes they stay the same forever. Some women have no regret at all - never had, never will. You can detest and condemn these women, but you can't deny they are being open and honest.

Will we let women speak for themselves? Or will we try to get the "right" response out of them?

I trust the pro-choice movement's ability to let the ambivalent, nuanced expriences be heard - the ones outside the regret, no regret dichotomy. I trust the pro-choicers ability to allow the truly regretful women speak, though we might need to exercise our muscles of intregrity to allow such free speech. It is hard for us, but we have the will power to allow these things.

I don't trust the pro-lifers willpower. They only want to generate the "right" words from women. Any other testimony will be dismissed as a women "who doesn't know what's best for her".

But as I say all this, let me be clear: Women who have abortions are entitled to have their experiences be expressed, in their words, no matter what the experience was. However, no woman is entitled to change the law to force other women to "make the right choice". 

And that is the crux of the pro-lifer's goal behind their "prowoman" attempts. They WANT to force women to make the choice they approve of. If she doesn't regret being forced, then its because "she doesn't know any better", or "she's been co-opted by the pro-abortion crowd".

But pro-lifers never co-opt anyone, do they? If women genuinely wan ttheir abortions, maybe, some or most pro-life groups will not try to "change her mind". Maybe these groups will just be satisfied with stopping her abortion and letting her live and suffer with a pregnancy and child she does not want. After all, they always tell themselves "she doesn't know what she wants".

But nothing I've written matters as much as the voices of women who've faced an abortion. The movement is about their rights, and anything I say, no matter how logical, can be construed as me "putting words in their mouths".

So to all women who've had abortions: speak, speak, speak. And if you believe that women should be allowed to have abortions, speak why. Because I can't speak for you. 

Submitted by Harry834 on July 8, 2008 - 8:21pm.

speak up to your fellow women who think you don't deserve the right to choose.

Those women live among you. I can't talk to them. Only you can.

Submitted by Harry834 on July 8, 2008 - 8:24pm.

The voices that are truly missing are the voices of women who have been so desperate they've resorted to dangerous and sometimes fatal measures to terminate their own pregnancies.

Submitted by Feminem on July 9, 2008 - 4:15pm.

Actually, we are entitled to change the law!

Submitted by Anonymous on August 13, 2008 - 4:46pm.

And its about time people took a stand and made a change. And Harry, haven't you ever heard the term "adoption?"

Submitted by Anonymous on August 23, 2008 - 4:55am.

Adoption resolves the issue of unwanted parenting. It does not resolve the issue of unwanted pregnancy. If there was a way to make abortion illegal without forcing women to endure pregnancy and childbirth against their will, this debate would not be going on. If there was an easy middle ground where everyone could be happy, there would be no abortion debate.

Submitted by Sayna on September 6, 2008 - 1:52pm.

Your story broke my heart. I too have had two pregnancies which had to be termintated. The first one was at 12 weeks and the fetus was dead and the 2nd was at 9 weeks but the fetus was dying a little bit every day. My doctor at the time refused to terminate the pregnancy until the fetus had died. I was forced to go in day after day and watch my baby's heart rate get slower and slower. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment! Finally a nurse practitioner seeing the absolute distress this was causing me offered to fib to the doctor and tell him the heart beat had stopped. Needless to say, I no longer frequent this doctor. What a mind f! Unless you have walked a mile in a pregnant woman's shoes, my advise to you would be to STFU!

Submitted by Proud Pagan on July 9, 2008 - 5:55pm.

Lynda,
As a strong advocate for abortion rights, it is stories like yours that inspire me to fight harder than before for our rights regarding reproductive choices. Thank you so much for sharing your tragic story with us so that we can spread your story to others, open eyes to the realities of abortion, and help those blinded by inaccuracies to see what the REAL fight for abortion rights is about.

Submitted by feminist@uva on July 10, 2008 - 10:59am.

Just a note to thank Lynda for her story. It has received a wide audience.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/10/obamas-blues/

Submitted by Tricia on July 10, 2008 - 2:16pm.

First, I want to say that I am sorry for your loss and would have done the same thing in your situation. I am pro-choice, and unfortunately have experienced an abortion years ago myself. On the other hand, I can understand what Obama is trying to say..we can't let women who just changed their mind after it's too late to use an excuse for a late-term abortion. Of course, if there is a medical condition with either the mother or child, that is a different story. But for a woman to say that having a child is mentally stressful, they should have thought it out clearly during the 1st trimester.

Submitted by Anonymous on July 23, 2008 - 1:32pm.

we can't let women who just changed their mind after it's too late to use an excuse for a late-term abortion. Of course, if there is a medical condition with either the mother or child, that is a different story. But for a woman to say that having a child is mentally stressful, they should have thought it out clearly during the 1st trimester.
Oh, well, as long as the law of the land is about what you think, what you feel, and what you've decided is okay for other women.
It's not.
It's about what EACH WOMAN thinks, feels, and decides. Not you. It doesn't matter if you think she should have decided earlier - many women don't realize they're pregnant until further on in the pregnancy. Some people have bleeding all through the first trimester and into the second. Some women have sudden changes in circumstances, mental health, physical health, financial situations, marriages, etc. It doesn't matter if you think women are using these reason as an "excuse," because (one assumes), you're not the one having the abortion.

Submitted by Anonymous on July 25, 2008 - 7:27pm.

Um. No it's not. If a child is viable outside of its mother, that is murder, plain and simple. Who are you to say that its a "woman's right to choose?" If a baby is viable, it's a human being, a life. And as such, it has constitutional rights. I say it's a woman's right to be EDUCATED--and make a decision about the path of her pregnancy and the future of her BABY in the first trimester. If you go for 5 months and don't know you're pregnant, you're so out of touch with your body, it's ridiculous. There should be a law outlawing late term abortion (which is still legal in many US states, though barely legal in the rest of the countries around the globe) with exception of extreme risk to the mother--there are millions of women seeking newborns to adopt, and that child should be born healthy and sleep in the arms of its adoptive mother... instead of lying, cut to pieces in the bottom of a trash can.

Submitted by Anonymous on August 23, 2008 - 4:45am.

This stupid, fickle woman who gets pregnant and then goes "PSYCHE! Gimme that abortion, doc!" upon entering labor is a media fabrication. It is the embodiment of the belief that women are fickle, stupid and incompetent. Even if one did exist, do you really think it would be a more reasonable path to suddenly change plans and induce a late-term abortion rather than the much simpler and safer induced labor and deliver? Do you think any doctor would think that was the best way to handle a situation like that?

As much as you'd like to punish women for being detached from their bodies in a society where not everyone is a medical expert and people are still undereducated about their sexual/reproductive health, can't you have some empathy? It's rare for a woman not to know she's pregnant for a long time, but it does happen. Some women also have trouble getting the funds for abortion and have to spend a long time--perhaps months--getting the money. (And yet people say that abortion should receive no funding...) And sometimes there is the tragic case in which women with very-much wanted pregnancies have to abort to save their own lives.

...there are millions of women seeking newborns to adopt, and that child should be born healthy and sleep in the arms of its adoptive mother...

Actually, there are currently more children up for adoption than there are adults looking to adopt. The problem is that most of these children are older and have mental and physical health issues when most people want to adopt healthy newborns.

And what makes you think that women's bodies and babies should be commodities? Why should women be forced to produce babies just to keep up with the demand for healthy newborns?

Submitted by Sayna on September 6, 2008 - 2:06pm.

Sooooo if I think and feel that having a child is to great an emotional and financial burden I should be able to terminate? Sounds reasonable. What if I don't realize how emotionally and financially burdening it is until after they're born?

Submitted by Anonymous on August 26, 2008 - 12:39am.

Social and financial dependence are different from physical dependence. Social and financial dependence can be solved by giving the infant or child up to others. Physical dependence can only be solved through the physical removal of the fetus. Until an artificial womb or something similar exists, the only way to end and unwanted pregnancy* is abortion.

*I've already explained that adoption solves unwanted parenting but not forced pregnancy.

Submitted by Sayna on September 6, 2008 - 2:12pm.

The voices that are truly missing are the voices of the millions of otherwise healthy children murdered at the hands of cold-hearted physicians by abortion. These mothers also had a hand in these brutal murders. Remember--Thou shalt not kill. GOD bless all Physicians who won't kill by abortion, which, by the way, was in the oath they took when they became a physician.

Submitted by A Mother on July 23, 2008 - 8:54pm.

There are no children (healthy or otherwise) murdered during an abortion.  An abortion is the termination of ones pregnancy.  Period.  God bless all of the doctors who risk their very lives on a regular basis in order to give women the medical treatment that they need because of the oath that they took when they became physicians.  I thank God that I was born into a time and a place where abortion was a safe and legal option for me.

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on July 25, 2008 - 7:38pm.

If the baby is far along enough that it could survive outside the womb, then it is murder. Period.

Submitted by Anonymous on August 16, 2008 - 5:54pm.

If the baby is far along enough that it could survive outside the womb, then it is murder. Period.

Have you done no research regarding why a pregnancy would be terminated post-viability?  Better yet, here's a novel idea... you could actually take the time to read the article to which you are responding.  Further, terminating a fetus (viable or not) is not and never has been murder (even during the period of time that abortion was criminalized.)

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on August 16, 2008 - 9:13pm.

Mellankelly1,

Terminating a fetus IS MURDER!! Just not in legal standards. In moral standards it is. Obama endorses murder. Period.

Submitted by Anonymous on August 20, 2008 - 10:56pm.

Terminating a fetus IS MURDER!! Just not in legal standards. In moral standards it is

No, it's not.  Even if you use ALL CAPS, abortion is not murder (not even in "moral standards".)  You believe abortion is not moral - perhaps based on your personal religious code of conduct or your personal belief system (individual morality.) 

Obama endorses murder. Period.

Getting hysterical doesn't change the facts.  Obama does not endorse murder.  Period.

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on August 21, 2008 - 8:16pm.

YES. Abortion is murder if the baby can live outside of the womb, plain and simple. At this point, deliver the child and give it up to someone who's deserving.
For your information, since you haven't researched yourself, the majority of the reasons women have late term abortions are INSANE... take a peek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion
# 1% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
# 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
# 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
# 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
# 8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
# 8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
# 6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
# 6% Woman didn't know timing is important
# 5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
# 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
# 11% Other

Submitted by Anonymous on August 23, 2008 - 4:52am.

*Cough**Cough* tell them about Dr. Martin Haskell....

Submitted by pro-life atheist on August 23, 2008 - 6:23am.

 YES. Abortion is murder if the baby can live outside of the womb, plain and simple. At this point, deliver the child and give it up to someone who's deserving.

 No, it's not and I will refer you once again to research why women have abortions post-viability (after 24 weeks gestation).  You obviously know nothing of which you speak (evidenced by your "research")... you are merely perpetuating anti-abortion myths, my dear.

For your information, since you haven't researched yourself, the majority of the reasons women have late term abortions are INSANE... take a peek:

Now, I'm betting this is a typo but it's actually 71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation, not 1%.  Further, I believe it is important to note that those numbers represent abortions after 16 weeks since last menstrual period.  and that only .08% are performed after 24 weeks (when a healthy fetus is considered to be viable).  More complete information:

  •  90% are performed in the first trimester
  • 6 in 10 are performed within 8 weeks from last menstrual period
  • fewer than 2% are performed after 20 weeks
  • Nearly half of all women attribute the delay to difficulty in making arrangements for the procedure (needed time to raise money, arrange transportation, or they were minors subject to state laws or difficulty arranging child care.) 

 

I can't say that I'm surprised by the use of misinformation, but it is always a bit disappointing to know that the anti-abortion forces are using false figures, in addition to misinformation, pseudoscience and outright lies in presenting arguments to those who actually haven't researched abortion.  Keep clickin'!

Submitted by Mellankelly1 on August 25, 2008 - 3:47pm.

I'm sorry--Pseudo-science? It's not pseudo-science to euphemistically refer to a child only as a "fetus" before it is visible? I appreciate the difficulty of someone who had to deal with the complex questions and awful pain Ms. Waddington dealt with. That's horrible. But I also appreciate that she recognized her child AS a child, not simply a fetus. That she understood that abortion MEANT the ending of a life. I think people largely don't like to admit this. And in the debate that's followed, I've heard just as much unthinking pro-choice propaganda as pro-life. At the end of the day, how can you say it's simply about the mother and what she wants? I know people whose parents wanted to abort them, who barely escaped being "terminated" at birth. Frankly, regardless of what their mothers may or may not still want, I think they had, and have, a right to live. And they are not sorry to be alive. Now, I certainly think their mothers do as well. But to place one's right to liberty and happiness above another's right to life? Also, I DON'T think Planned Parenthood and other organizations want people to know what occurs during an abortion. I don't think they want people educated. Otherwise, why not allow photographs to be taken of the procedure, as with other operations, so that the mother knows exactly what is occurring. Why not allow it to be televised and shown on a medical channel? I will tell you why--because for all of the oversimplification that occurs (on both sides, it is true), I think everyone knows, deep down, that this is the taking of a human life.

Submitted by Anonymous on September 6, 2008 - 12:40pm.

It's not pseudo-science to euphemistically refer to a child only as a "fetus" before it is visible?

No. That's keeping the term medically accurate instead of the vague and non-scientific term "baby" or the inaccurate term "infant." Using "baby", "infant", "preborn", etc. is considered intellectually dishonest and an appeal to emotion.

know people whose parents wanted to abort them, who barely escaped being "terminated" at birth. Frankly, regardless of what their mothers may or may not still want, I think they had, and have, a right to live.

This is just a variation of the often-used "What if YOU were aborted?!" red herring. If someone was aborted, it would be nearly the same as never having been conceived. They would have just never been born.

But to place one's right to liberty and happiness above another's right to life?

Sadly, that's what this debate boils down to. If two living things in one body could have an equal right to life, liberty and happiness, this debate would not be happening. One can either support the right of a fetus to be born or the rights of the woman to bodily domain, individual liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I DON'T think Planned Parenthood and other organizations want people to know what occurs during an abortion. I don't think they want people educated. Otherwise, why not allow photographs to be taken of the procedure, as with other operations, so that the mother knows exactly what is occurring. Why not allow it to be televised and shown on a medical channel? I will tell you why--because for all of the oversimplification that occurs (on both sides, it is true), I think everyone knows, deep down, that this is the taking of a human life.

But this is a controversial and private medical procedure. What's the point of showing it? "Eew, that's gross!" applies to every medical procedure and isn't a valid argument. Besides, medical channels refuse to show many kinds of surgeries and medical conditions. For instance, they will not allow nudity or explanations of procedure to be shown during shows about sex-change operations. We already censor so much. Would a television network really take the risk of getting angry complaints for showing a procedure that is so controversial?

You assertion that women are too stupid (or perhaps, just too ignorant or naive) to know what an abortion is is insulting. Are you really going to tell me that most of my gender has no idea what an abortion is or how it's performed? Or that they are incapable of deciding to have an abortion and must have been tricked into it? Are you going to tell me that medical facilities such as Planned Parenthood don't have to and do not follow standards such as informed consent?

Submitted by Sayna on September 6, 2008 - 2:29pm.

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