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Gloves Off: Clinton, Obama Debate in Austin

Emily Douglas's picture

The gloves came off for the second one-on-one debate meeting for Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, this time in Austin, Texas. The conversation was sharper in tone than before, again drawing out some substantive differences between the candidates on issues and some similarities, and punctuated with raucous applause for each senator.

Just like the last Democratic debate, the conversation was substantive enough to be well worth paying attention to -- you can read the transcript here. Most exciting to me was the candidates' feisty back-and-forth on health insurance mandates. Responding to the charge that his health care plan would leave 15 million people uninsured, Sen. Obama said, "...the notion that I am leaving 15 million people out somehow implies that we are different in our goals of providing coverage to all Americans, and that is simply not true. We think that there's going to be a different way of getting there." He invoked his theme of changing the way the business of politics gets done: "The point is this, you know, we can have great plans, but if we don't change how the politics is working in Washington, then neither of our plans are going to happen, and we're going to be four years from now debating once again how we're going to bring universal health care to this country."

Sen. Clinton came back strongly, saying, "I just know that if we don't go and require everyone to have health insurance, the health insurance industry will still game the system. Everyone of us with insurance will pay the hidden tax of approximately $900 a year to make up for the lack of insurance...If you do not have a plan that starts out attempting to achieve universal health care, you will be nibbled to death, and we will be back here with more and more people uninsured and rising costs."

The harshest words of the night came from Sen. Clinton, who reiterated her accusation of plagiarism against Sen. Obama, saying that he offers "change you can Xerox." But Sen. Clinton ought to have anticipated some charges of plagiarism of her very own lobbed against her concluding speech. In a page clearly taken from John Edwards's playbook, she wrapped up the night:

And, you know, no matter what happens in this contest -- and I am honored, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored. Whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people, and that's what this election should be about.

Writing about the Iowa debate in December, I admired John Edwards's New Year's resolution. He reminded us that, "All of us on this stage are going to be just fine...but America may not be fine." It was so good -- no wonder Sen. Clinton couldn't resist an homage.


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8 comments

It's the way that Obama has brushed this charge of plagiarism as unimportant that I found insulting. I'm an author. Ask Nora Roberts and Cassie Edwards if plagiarism isn't a theft. When even the romance industry has more standards and ethics that a presidencial candidate, this nation is in trouble. Now students will be able to defend charges of plagiarism by saying if a president can do it, why can't I? Isn't this a lovely example...

If Plagiarism is a theft, then Obama isn't change, he's just a thief. And the only thing he had to do was quote the source. Any student knows that. He's not about change. He has nothing to say. He "inspires" with words that are not his, so what is Obama about?

I know that nothing that Obama does can be criticized because the man walks on water, but come on, this is just wrong. Can't we just admit he commited at least a mistake? My son started laughing and said he was going to use the "Obama defense" in college! I did not find it funny.

Submitted by Maria on February 22, 2008 - 12:13am.

Then be consistent. Hillary has been lifting other people's stuff all over the place.

Submitted by sketchartist on February 22, 2008 - 1:26am.

Obama was not trying to excuse or downplay the act of "plagiarism". The Obama speech comments at issue were not "plagiarism". It's as simple as that. According to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (10th Ed.), plagiarism is defined as stealing or passing off the ideas or words of another as one's own, or using another's production, without crediting the source. This is not what Obama did. He did not use the words of Deval Patrick (Governor of Massachusetts, one of the co-chairs of his campaign, and a friend who, according to Obama, suggested Obama use the words at issue in a few recent speeches) with any consideration as to garnering personal credit (or any derived benefit from such credit) for the original idea to express the particular sentiments in the manner expressed. The point was merely to express the sentiment in an effective way. To equate this with lifting text from someone else's previously written material for use in a college paper for academic credit is an error. By the way, Clinton's touching "this election is bigger than the candidates" moment at the end of the debate was paraphrased rather tightly from a comment by former candidate John Edwards at the end of a debate in December 2007.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 22, 2008 - 1:47am.

definition. Borrowing memes in politics is not plagiarism. It's amplification. A writer wants their ideas to be accredited to herself for intellectual pride and financial reasons. A politicians wants their ideas to spread like wildfire. Considering that the person who originally wrote the passages basically rewrote them for Obama, I can't say this plagiarism.

 

Seriously, it's like arguing that Joss Whedon "plagiarized" himself by echoing a scene in X-Men II that he wrote for Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Submitted by Amanda Marcotte, RH Reality Check on February 22, 2008 - 4:14pm.

if plagiarism is the worst you can point out in a presidential candidate, then we've got a pretty good thing going with Obama. and yes, Hillary uses whatever words she can borrow from others and whatever fake sentiments she can come up with to try to win her audience so she needs to "zip the lip" with this whole plagiarism thing.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 22, 2008 - 1:43am.

What is the symbol for the Democratic Party..... A DONKEY. That about sums it all. In a year when your party has a perfect chance to win the white house, you will as usual shoot yourselves in the foot with ideology and cultism by choosing an inexperience far left (check out his voting record, instead of listening to his speeches) winger, that can no more unite this country than the far right winger Bush who spoke of the same change in 2000.

He will reach across the aisles?? For whom...Do you honestly believe he will convince any Republican with his far left views. Heck MCCain who is a Republican with centrist views has a tough time in his own party. So Obama the Messiah will get the Republicans in washington to see his ways. Wake up folks and smell the crap you are shoveling.

You folks do not know what winning means. Who was the only winning person in your Party???? Bill Clinton. With Hillary you have a good chance, but as usual your bumbling ways are going to let the Republicans keep the white house again.

Look at the losers supporting the soone-to-be loser Obama....Kerry (Wow, he was so far in the polls but he lost), Kennedy (all he knows is how to get drunk and chase woman).

So the Republicans are excited to go against Obama.....By the time they are done putting him thru the wringer...he will wish for 'Hope' and 'Change' to go back to Illinlois.

And if that is not enough, look at the majority Congress. Your party has had majority control for 2 years, yet they have the lowest favorable percentage and cannot do anything. Elect tough guys and gals not Pelosi and Reed who keel over everytime a Republican even looks their way. Then maybe you will have a few wins in your column.

So Thanks again.....And keep drinking the Kool Aid ...Do not look at Obama's record, Do not ask him the tough questions, just nominate him.

Submitted by Anonymous on February 22, 2008 - 3:52am.

I voted for Nixon with my first vote, and every Republican since. I live in a red state with two Republican Senators and a Republican Congressman. I attend church with my family, am one of those people who struggles with the abortion issue but ultimately believe we must honor the woman's life choices first, because parents always have to make choices for their children and if they are not ready for a child, it is better to wait until they are. I firmly believe in contraception and sex ed so that fewer women face the difficult decision to terminate an early pregnancy.

I say all of this because I want the anonymous writer above to know I'm about as conservative as they come, though I know the pro-life zealots will come after me for my opinion. Anonymous, whoever you are and wherever you live, you just keep drinking the Kool Aid that says you can win, because I, along with many of my friends are very excited by Barack Obama, and as a woman, I wouldn't mind voting for Hillary Clinton over John McCain, though I find her a bit less exciting.

This election will not be decided on labels, voting records, or experience. George Bush had the right label, was right on all the issues, and had the right experience as Governor of a large state -- and I voted for him twice, regretfully -- but he was all wrong. I'm paying more attention to politics than I ever have before because I'm so disgusted by what has happened these past few years. Many of my friends are too. You are nuts if you think this election is going to be like anything we've ever seen before, and this elephant -- with my long memory -- will be voting for donkeys for the first time in my life. The party I thought I knew is over.

Submitted by Republican Woman on February 22, 2008 - 9:33am.

Hillary got booed for that weak xerox line. This really can't be the way she believes she will turn this thing around, can it? I thought they both showed lots of class last night, like they really will move forward united, and for that I'm very thankful. They are both great people.

Submitted by Obama Mama on February 22, 2008 - 9:46am.