Debate Review and Doctors Refusing Care

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Dodging the question of how much time she should do, dodging patients who want contraception, and dodging the lube while reaching for your Gideon Bible. Amanda also talks to Harriette Wimms about the difference between getting fertility treatments when you're straight vs. getting those same treatments when you come out as a lesbian.

 

Links in this episode:

Spray-on condoms
Don't you dare ask that question
Federalism and abortion
Choice
Doctors vs. patients
Using hotel rooms for sex?!

 

Transcript:

On this week's show, Harriette Wimms will read from her story about the obstacles awaiting a lesbian seeking infertility treatments, CNN tells the truth about doctors who refuse to care for female patients, and I reply to the non-answers that some Republican candidates gave on abortion in a recent debate.

 

Thanks to flea at the blog Lock The Bedroom Door for reporting on some of the more confusing news from the world of sex tech. A German inventor has invented a spray-on condom for men who are too small or large for the standard sizes. A worthy idea, but color me skeptical about how it works. You stick your penis into a pump that sprays it with latex, wait 20 seconds, and then you're ready to go. If your erection hasn't wilted from being sprayed with latex. And if it doesn't break---condoms aren't supposed to be completely skin tight. The little give at the end helps keep them from breaking, you know.

 

Maybe a better idea is a greater variety in sizes of condoms?

 

**************

 

Apparently, the fact that some voters had the nerve---the nerve I tell you!---to ask Republican candidates where they stand on abortion during the Republican YouTube debate is sending the right wingers into a tizzy. I'm not sure why, though. It's not like most candidates didn't do a magnificent job of dodging the question.

 

The first question is a favorite one of mine to ask anti-choicers, since I have yet to hear one who will answer it directly. Shout out to a fellow Texan for having the ovaries to ask it.

 

*insert republican question one*

 

Congressman Ron Paul, how will you get out of saying that 1/3 of American women are murderers who should be in jail as we speak?

 

*ron paul answer*

 

Ah, the federalism dodge! Leave it to the states! Does Ron Paul really believe that the federal government needs to stay out of abortion? If so, then why on earth did he vote for the most sweeping federal anti-abortion legislation bill to come down the pipe, the federal "partial birth" abortion ban?

 

Fred Thompson hides behind the "ladies are too stupid to know what they're doing" dodge that presumes that women aren't full citizens under the law, but should be treated like minors who are unaware of their actions.

 

*fred thompson answer *

 

A favorite anti-choice dodge that makes no sense. If you honest to god thought abortion was killing a human being, then procuring it or paying someone to do it is a crime that is equal or greater to performing the act for pay. If you hire a contract killer to kill your own child, that's a crime, is it not? If you think abortion is murder, shouldn't it be treated like murder?

 

It's almost like anti-choicers are being insincere about the murder thing, and are in this because they oppose a woman's right to control her own body.

 

Second question, same subject.

 

*insert republican question two*

 

A bit more of a softball. Giuliani gives a straightforward answer.

 

*insert rudy Giuliani answer*

 

Leaving it to the states is a popular answer. My suspicion is that your average sympathizer with the anti-choice view enjoys having the warm, fuzzy, misogynist feeling of having anti-sex legislation on their local books to make them feel that they're in a morally upright community. But they like the idea that abortion is legal in New York or wherever so that when they need one they can get one. It's cool as long as the appearance of rigid Puritanism is maintained. It's a great system, except for all the women who don't have the means to travel to another state to get an abortion. But I guess those women can be sacrificed for the sake of a hypocritical morality that's all for show.

 

It's worth noting that Giuliani is from a state where abortion would most likely stay legal if Roe v. Wade was overturned.

 

Mitt Romney gives me pains with his devious answer. He's smart enough to jump on the "leave it to the states" bandwagon, and then hedges his bets by saying he'd also sign a federal abortion ban. Either, or, whatever you want!

 

*insert mitt Romney answer*

 

But I think what really churned my stomach was the idea that there's a single reason to think that not wanting to have abortion in the country has anything to do with abortion bans in the real world. Not wanting to have legal abortion, sure. Wanting women to die in back alleys or hotel rooms from desperately trying to self-abort, sure. Wanting women to be punished for the sin of sexuality with infertility, infection and even death, sure. If that's what you want, you want an abortion ban. But abortion bans have little to no relationship with this fantasy of stopping abortion. As long as women are getting pregnant when they don't want to be, there will be abortion.

 

************

HARRIETTE E. WIMMS is completing her Ph.D. in child clinical psychology and community psychology at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. Her dissertation explores the experiences and perceptions of doctoral students of color in psychology. She has an M.S. in developmental psychology from Johns Hopkins University and a B.S. in English from Towson State University. Her poetry has appeared in the anthology From the Listening Place: Languages of Intuition. She lives in Baltimore, where she is the proud and busy mother of a three-year-old boy.

 

*insert reading/interview*

 

**********************

 

CNN recently had a segment on the growing movement of medical workers with anti-choice views pushing their views on patients. I watched it, waiting for the usual tip-toeing around the anti-sex, anti-woman views of anti-choicers and the usual pretending that they're primarily motivated by saving babies, when we all know it's about controlling female sexuality. Luckily, the segment hit the truth about anti-choicers right off the bat.

 

*insert cnn medical one*

 

They interviewed Dr. Scott Ross, a Catholic doctor who delivers moralizing lectures instead of prescriptions when women come to him seeking contraception.

 

*insert cnn medical two*

 

Splitting hairs. But I'm thinking that it's very rarely an apologetic, "Sorry, I can't do that" kind of thing. I'm guessing once you're actually in the doctor's office and a bit of a captive audience, you get disapproving stares at the least, at worst a lecture about how you should be pumping out one baby after another if you're going to be naughty enough to have sex. Women who are getting shot down for their requests for basic care certainly feel judged.

 

*insert cnn medical three*

 

Of course he was judging her. Later in the show, they have a representative from the American Medical Association come on and give the AMA's general view of the issue, which is that medical workers have the basic right not to do things they find immoral, no matter how silly their moral framework. But they also have an obligation to make sure the patient gets the care she needs, which is absolutely not happening. In fact, there's been reports of pharmacists snatching away birth control prescriptions and refusing to relinquish them, doctors refusing to give referrals, and of course the entire issue with emergency rooms. If you've been raped and you're looking for emergency contraception, you don't have time to get a referral and call someone in the morning. The sooner you swallow the pills, the more likely you'll escape pregnancy.

 

Needless to say, the stonewalling of women who need emergency contraception means that anti-choicers are effectively guaranteeing that there will be more abortions than there would be otherwise. Said before, worth repeating: Given the choice between preventing abortion and punishing a woman for being sexual or even being raped, they'll choose the latter, every time.

 

The thing that bothers me especially about doctors who see the patients and THEN tell them no on contraception is that they're being kind of sleazy if you think about it. Your average gynecologist knows that a good percentage of his business, probably half I'd bet, is going to be in helping women control their fertility. If you're unwilling to do half your frigging job, you should be willing to put a big sign over the door that says, "Will not prescribe birth control, so don't even ask." Why not do it? Well, with a sign like that, you wouldn't have half naked women of you cowering in front of your lecturing judgments, nor would you have the pleasure of making them pay for the favor. Thus the bait and switch technique.

 

****************

 

Now for the Wisdom of Wingnuts, this time a find from Pam Spaulding. The latest wingnut cause of alarm? People are using their hotel stays more for having sex than engaging in spontaneous conversions to Christianity. It takes a special kind of person to find that news shocking.

 

*insert hotel sex*

 

So many things wrong with that clip, starting with the implication that a cadre of PC types, probably radical feminists, hippies and college professors, is swapping out Bibles with baskets of condoms. In reality, it's the invisible hand of the free market at work. And here I thought the free market was a god only second to the Christian god, and sometimes not even that.

 

But what really gets me is how the fundies proclaim themselves the defenders of family values and yet they can't even value marriage enough to tolerate the things married people do to bond. Don't they want marriages to stay together? I bet if anyone cared to research it, they'd find that massage oil holds more marriages together than the dusty Gideon Bibles in hotel rooms ever could.

 

 

 

Follow Amanda Marcotte on Twitter, @amandamarcotte

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12 comments
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0
Liz Barnes Doctor's treatment December 10, 2007 - 4:30pm

I recently went to the doctor for a birth control blood pressure check and the nurse refused to take my vitals let alone touch me because not only had I had an abortion but because I was there for birth control. She got the other nurses to refuse to take my vitals so the NP that I see had to do it herself. The whole time I was there it seemed no one wanted to deal with me or properly address my concerns it seemed they just wanted me out the door. I told the NP that my husband was going to get a vasectomy for a more permanent form of bc and she then gave me a lecture about how I should have more children even though it would be life threatening for me and she knows this. I am in the process of a formal compliant process with the practice and hospital they are associated with. I totally agree that a doctor should have a sign saying that they won't give you the pills or that they are prolife so you know ahead of time. I am in the process of looking for another practice and them having a sign or being at least upfront about it would be great but I know it will never happen. I shouldn't have to feel judged at the doc's office. It just isn't right.

0
Harry834 I totally agree December 10, 2007 - 7:44pm

You deserve better. Good luck with the complaint process.

0
Brent Ron Paul on Abortion December 10, 2007 - 5:02pm

Well, this is how he responded to the partial-abortion bill:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul98.html

He also believes, as a doctor and legislator, that the life is there. However, he believes states should determine what to do, if anything, like they did before Roe vs Wade.

And he wouldn't put women in jail.

Also, I find it funny that people support Roe vs Wade, even pro-choicers. A legislation (from the Courts) that states you can have an abortion in the 1st, 2nd,and 3rd trimester is a little too broad for my taste. A women is carrying a 7pound baby and her boyfriend walks out on her, she aborts. "That rarely/never happens!" But, it's still legal under Roe vs Wade.

0
Anonymous If it makes u feel better December 10, 2007 - 5:17pm

To believe a LIAR.. Then believe what Hillary or Rudy or Romney or all the rest of them

Ron Paul... speaks truth... and wouldn't want to see a woman in jail AT ALL for what she felt she needed to do...

He is the ONLY one who as said how wrong it is to put a girl in jail because she kills her baby immediatly after birth... yet a doctor can do it immediatly before and no biggie..

Dr. Paul America NEEDS a Doctor.. not a Lawyer... and the truth.. not a LIE

0
William D Berg Minority babies need to die December 10, 2007 - 5:18pm

I can't wait until Rudy Giuliani gets elected so he can pay minorities to get abortions. That helped to reduce crime in New York while he was mayor and it will do the same for America once he is our president.

http://www.rudy20008.com

0
Benjamin Wornell Ron Paul - Abortion December 10, 2007 - 5:21pm

I hate to say it, but Paul's "Leave it to the States" isn't a dodge. He said exactly the same thing in a speech given at a Conservative Church. He stands by this position even if States might employ Laws that "Pro-Lifers" would not agreement. He is definitely Pro-Life, but recognizes that abortion is a difficult issue. Get your facts straight.

0
Amanda Marcotte He voted for a federal abortion ban December 10, 2007 - 7:42pm

Get your facts straight. "Leave it to the states" is a dodge to escape saying out loud that you wish to throw 1/3 of women in jail on the charge of murder. He voted for a federal abortion ban.

0
Anonymous RE: Ron Paul's answer and bias December 10, 2007 - 6:29pm

If you spent as much time paying attention as you do being angry, you would probably have noticed that Ron Paul actually answered that question, although Anderson had to lead him back to the original point. While not ideal that is much better than par for the course fro both Democratic and Republican candidates and any "frontrunner" of either party. He said he would not want girls in jail but would hold doctors accountable. And if you cared enough to do research on candidates rather that just spouting your obviously biased opinion, you would also know why he would those opinions and has a pro-life stance, and that he is not as hard line on early term abortion and does not consider the morning after pill immoral.

This is one of the last people to dodge questions, and I have heard him say the same thing on various issues time and time again even amidst resistance, hostile questioning, and mass booing. No other current political candidate except maybe Dennis Kucinich has that kind of courage and conviction.

I am pro-choice, but I am still pro-Paul, and not just because states rights leaves the door open for a split decision, but because he states his position and gives a logical realistic, experienced-based reason for it, instead of vague religious moralizing or (just as bad) the narcissistic selfishness of people who throw stones at infanticide but condone late-term abortion on a privacy basis.

This article needs a serious maturity check.

0
Amanda Marcotte Not an answer December 10, 2007 - 7:41pm

Sorry, "leave it to the states" is not an answer, especially not from someone who voted to make abortion a federal crime. And I'm continually perplexed by the people who accuse me of being angry when horrible things happen? Isn't that the proper reaction? Wouldn't it be worse if I was like, "La di dah, women's rights are being taken away"? Wouldn't that make me a horrible, cold, person if I didn't care?

0
Harry834 Virtue December 10, 2007 - 7:47pm

Virtue has two children: anger and courage - anger at what's wrong, and courage to make it better.

Keep it up Amanda. You do great work.

0
Mark Foxwell Well, thanks Paul supporters... December 11, 2007 - 9:17am

...for confirming Amanda's two major points about Paul and what he stands for.

First of all, none of you Paul supporters so far have expressed any libertarian concerns regarding abortion as a grounds for your support. I do not call myself a "Libertarian," because that's a half-baked ideology that in practice would greatly curtail meaningful freedom for the vast majority of us (obviously, in this context, women especially) but I do believe in human liberty, and from that small-l libertarian position it seems clear to me that there should be no restrictions whatsoever placed on pregnant women who decide they need to have an abortion. But the vast majority of you Paulistas seem to be looking forward to at least some states and who knows how many smaller baliwicks putting even more restrictions on what I regard as a basic human right. None of you seem to think, "Well, Paul personally thinks abortion should stop, but as a principled libertarian, he won't condone using the coercive power of government to try to compel that result." And indeed, if we look at what he has done as well as said, he probably would, so good on y'all for not making yourselves look even stupider by pretending he wouldn't.

Thus you have confirmed Amanda's point that this so-called "moral" anti-choice crusade is really an attempt to degrade women in general to an inferior class of citizen or sub-citizen, and that's what y'all want to see.

Now that we've cleared that up, it leads straight to the second topic of debate--is Paul's "leave it to the States" line a principled stand or an evasion?

Well, clearly if the option of abortion is something all pregnant women are entitled to, curtailing that option is a violation of their rights, and should not be tolerated anywhere. Vice versa, if the anti-choice rhetoric added up to actual sense and we would therefore need to regard all abortions as murder, then it shouldn't be permitted anywhere.

"Leave it up to the States" is indeed an evasive fan-dance. At best, it might be a pragmatic policy based on expedience. In this case, the expedience favors the anti-choice side, since at this time the basic law of the land still supports the basic right of women to choose abortion (with more restrictions than I think are justified to be sure, but in places that don't put even more obstacles in the way of women's choices, ones we might generally live with).

Back when I was first listening to "Libertarian" claptrap I took some comfort in the notion that at least if Libs got into real power, perhaps the results would be disastrous for the economy and social justice in general, but anyway we might expect the government to back out of people's bedrooms. With Paul we clearly would get the worst of both worlds, all the panty-sniffing pseudomoralism of the "Religious Right" along with the calloused indifference to social disaster of the most hard-boiled, egotistical capitalism imaginable, with none of that quaint populism a casual reading of the Bible might impose at least the pretence of on straightforward Christian Dominionists. In fact since the latter have largely maneuvered their ideological way out of all the social justice spirit of the Hebrew and Christian tradition, Paul is shaping up to be exactly what I expect from a Dominionist all across the board. He's demonstrated their racist mentality, their whacked-out conspiracy theories that are their ideological substitute for a realistic analysis of global capitalism. All he has to do is come out against gay people and drugs, and I would expect that he probably has.

0
realityfighter Second time today I've dissed a guy named Paul December 11, 2007 - 8:21pm

Okay, I admit the discussion of Ron Paul and abortion hit a nerve, so you're getting it.


I have no doubt in my mind that Ron Paul wants to outlaw abortion, and he is using the States Rights principle as a vehicle toward that goal - not as a morally neutral, principled response. He does not seem to understand - or maybe he's ignoring - the simple idea that Government works to protect the rights of the weak when they are infringed by the strong. Your state governments are very strong; women in the position of carrying an unwanted pregnancy are very weak. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.


Honestly, I see those of you who applaud Paul's states rights approach as foppish and naive. It's like saying that it's wise for a school to always defer discipline problems to the parents. But more importantly, it glosses over the only real question on the issue - whether or not I have the right to control my reproduction. If I do, and I think the legal precedent agrees with my gut here, then Paul's assertion is about as incoherent as claiming that the federal government has no place protecting Freedom of Speech.